Some Thoughts on Networking
Following in the footsteps of @Sil"'s recent post ("Want to get me on the phone? Here's how - a networking overview.") l figured that I would share some random musings on networking.
1) Forming Relationships:
First and foremost, recognize the networking is actually about forming relationships it's not a transactional thing. I'm not going to go to bat just by virtue of somebody having talked to me once, but with that said given my busy schedule I try and make myself as available as possible for people trying to break in. I'm not that many years removed from struggling to get into finance and I get it, particularly having come from a non-target undergrad.
To change your approach from being purely transactional to actually being relationship based, try and add some value. I certainly appreciate it when somebody follows up with an article they've seen that they think might be interesting or if they congratulate me on the transaction that my group has recently closed. Also, make sure to check in from time to time, give me an update on how the job search is going or what you're up to. Just don't be too persistent or to frequent it's ok to hear from somebody quarterly, maybe even once every other month, but not every couple of weeks that's excessive. Also if it's possible try and meet in person, it's far better than over the phone.
2) Preparation:
Next have intelligent questions ready when you do talk. If you don't have a conception of what I do it's not going to be a particularly meaningful conversation. Ask me about things that you can't find with a simple Google search: group culture, direction/strategy and the like. Also it should go without saying, but don't ask about compensation, I've actually had people ask me that and my response was invariably it's competitive and then I took their resume and threw in the garbage.
3) Network across all levels:
Finally, network across all levels of the industry you are targeting as well as allied professions. Far too often you see people only trying to speak to very senior bankers. The reality is analysts and associates are generally the ones involved in undergraduate and MBA recruiting. Plus as time goes on the senior bankers are going to retire and you want your network to truly last.
3b) Get creative:
Be creative about who you network with as well. Even if you went to a non-target it's almost certain that some of your alumni have gone on to decent accounting firm's or have gone to law school and have gone into big law. These alumni generally know a fair number of bankers or at least some people that might be willing to talk to you. While an audit partner may not necessarily be in the know about M&A they should at least be able to give you a referral over to either the in-house investment bank, people in finance roles at their clients, the M&A tax guys and their colleagues in consulting. Remember to always ask for referrals.
+SB
I cannot agree more regarding preparation. If you get me on the phone for 15 or 30 minutes, I can help you a lot more if we can skip the questions that you could have just Googled yourself.
I usually tell them I did some research and I was wondering How they do their job. The answer does reveal many differences in the way things are done at banks, but also it has a lot of repetition. Good question if you find a good way to ask it (suggestions?), because the way things are done can be a significant part of company culture.
It really depends on where you apply. For example, you would ask more about the job and how they do things at a smaller no name regional bank, because there could be much more variance there than at a BB Investment bank. Mia 2cents.
Ask about culture and direction, neither thing is going to be on Google. Ask about growth, if you're not growing in this business you are dying. Ask about how deal teams are structured, my firm is very lean usually just a 2 or 3 man deal team and that has both significant advantages and disadvantages.
I would also consider asking what a breakdown of time is between pitching and actually working on mandated deals.
"What do you do differently from other analysts/ associates/ etc. you work with to stand out"
I asked a guy about culture, and he asked me what I meant. I guess it was that persons first time too. This was for a commercial banking position at a community bank, so maybe they don't get a lot of calls from students. At least he kept it real and didn't hold back on his view of the negatives.
This article really shut down my networking game.
Edit: woops replied to wrong person.
@guyfromct Are you just trying to be Member of the Year and beat Sil?
Great tips. Thanks!
How to network (Originally Posted: 01/11/2018)
I don't reach the GPA threshold for MBB or other Tier 1 firms. However, though as I read continue to read through multiple threads I get the general theme that anything is possible through networking. So as profoundly stupid as this sounds how does one network? I understand the aspect of reaching out to previously alumni but what do you talk about?
Nah, just trying to ride his coattails to WSO greatness lol
Are you at a target or non-target?
public target
SB'd for the lego pic, shit made me laugh
How to get over the phoniness of networking (Originally Posted: 03/21/2014)
The longer i work in the business world, the more i realize that getting ahead is 99% due to networking. My question is how to get over my perceived "phoniness" of it. To me the word networking is synonymous with "talking to someone for the sole purpose of advancing my career," which seems fake to me. And when I try it, I end up either feeling like a sleazeball afterwards or looking like an idiot, often times both. I don't consider myself shy or an inadequate communicator at all, but I crave authenticity in my interactions with other people and can't seem to handle small talk very well. Truthfully, I'm a little jealous of people who are good at it, but i always have an urge to get to the point.
My question is to fellow introverts who are higher up on the totem pole (i'm just out of school). What are some ways that you were able to foster strong connections with others, without doing the traditional "show up to networking events in a suit and make small talk" route? I've tried emailing a few alumni who were willing to talk to me one on one which works pretty well... but the response rate isn't high. What are some other networking strategies?
"If you want a friend on Wall Street, get a dog."
Simple, IMO. People want to network with others b/c a.) makes them feel like they are paying it forward, or b.) they might be in a position to help them in the future. These people know what you want when you are networking.. they don't want a friend..
These aren't your friends, they're coworkers and professional contacts. SOME people may end up your friends, and I like when I end up friends with people, but if this was just about hanging out most people would be back home throwing back beers with their boys. Welcome to the adult world. And don't worry, I made the same mistake right up until about maybe two years ago.
Holden Caulfield
I actually feel the same way. I'm in 2nd year, and to all these events or coffees, sometimes I just don't know what to say that adds value. I've been to a couple of coffees with professionals, and a) I feel like I don't know anything close to what they know, and b) I can tell, that they can tell, that I don't know much and I'm just spewing out irrelevant, typical "networking" questions.
I see myself building professional contacts by working alongside people, asking/telling questions, stories, concerns, etc. about the job and general field (keeping it professional). That way, once you know the person, they're technically a contact.
Ultimately, I can see some people who don't "like" me (or don't enjoy the chat I try to initiate) - maybe due to look/personality/speaking/words/etc. Others really like me and I can get along with them. I find NO point in networking or talking with people who give off a vibe that they don't want to be around you. That tells me you can't network with just anyone. Yet some people seem to do just that, and like OP said, there is a desire to be like that.
My goal in these contexts is to always get personal. Be genuinely interested in what they have to say.
Start trying to learn things when you talk to these people. Frankly, if you're not enjoying talking / learning about deals over a coffee, dunno how you'll cope doing them at 3am.
Be genuinely interested in your job/career, and not just for the money, but actually for the work.
Be genuinely interested in people that work in your field, and in learning from them.
If you abide by those two rules, all of your networking questions should flow naturally, because if you're actually interested, you'll know what you want to learn more about from them.
As for networking being "phony," you just need to get that dichotomy out of your head. It's true that networking isn't making friends, but it actually is about developing relationships with people. You aren't just asking people for help, you're developing a relationship so that down the line you can also help them out, too. It isn't selfish at all.
Came here to say this almost verbatim.
I've never networked at seminars or sessions, but I've done a ton of cold emailing and it has worked for me. If they agree to meet or talk to you, demonstrate a genuine interest in learning about them and what they do. People I've spoken with actually found that refreshing, after the dozens of kids who've walked up to them and asked for a job.
Learn from them, ask intelligent, specific questions and stay in touch with them later. When the time comes, and since you're just beginning it most likely won't, be willing to return a favor or two.
Try be more open-minded. Whether you like it or not, you're constantly networking, even with your friends. You just enjoy being with them, thus making it not feel like networking. I think it gets a lot easier once you enter the workforce. Side conversations here and there with your coworkers helps build up relationships over time and you won't even realize it.
Granted, networking events for college students looking for internships and jobs are probably the most uncomfortable situations since it's blatantly obvious what the parties want from each other.
If you already have a FO job or a job that gets a lot of FO interaction, your efforts are best devoted to doing good work, being nice to people you work with, and helping people you've worked with on the career front. If you know of an opening at another firm that someone would be a good fit for, connect the necessary people.
Networking helps you get jobs, but having a reputation helps too. And if networking with strangers feels weird and phony (it does for me too), helping coworkers and friends feels a lot more natural.
Have your coworkers and a small group of genuine friends in the industry. Perhaps some of them are in your analyst class? Help those people out and hope they return the favor.
This is how an introverted quant with simpler (not poor) social skills "networks". Help people that you could probably trust to help you some day. And develop a reputation for doing good work.
Agree. Also, try to 'friend' people. If you leave industry, you walk away knowing some cool people. There is a protocol in many cases, but try offbeat stuff or work on other people's comfort level and you'll be surprised at how easy it is to get a more in depth conversation.
About the digital only approach: I did this at first as well, but there's a catch. You'll most likely connect with other people who are most comfortable using digital only. You want to break out of your comfort zone and it can be uncomfortable. GOOD. It's supposed to be. Try new things and you'll get better. It's like excercizing a muscle, you have to stress it to grow.
I have a relatively large "network" (or did during recruiting) but only a few mentors --the people who did the heavy lifting in getting my ass ready for recruitment. These are people who you like and who like you. Think of the phoniness of the process as being necessary to find these few people. For every hundred contacts I found one or two mentors and they were great.
This. There will be people who see a spark in you and will be willing to be your mentor [provided you're not an imbecile]. Never let those people go when you find them.
I like @"IlliniProgrammer"'s approach to networking.
Believe it or not but the people you sit in the trenches with will most probably some day have some degree of success. Don't be afraid to help people out on your level. If you know one of your acquaintances/friends wants to break into infrastructure finance and you happen to have met a VP in infrastructure finance at a recruitment event, make sure to connect them (given that you believe your acquaintance/friend is worthy of it and is a strong candidate).
Because guess what: if they hit it off and you hooked up a guy with his dream gig he's gonna remember that for the rest of this life and the VP will also be happy to have recruited a great candidate that he otherwise probably would have ignored (f.e. if your acquaintance/friend is from a non-target). This sort of stuff displays numerous traits that people like to see in candidates - a more senior skill-set. If you understand the game know, think about how much damage you can do at the senior level.
Remember: Networking is just as much about connecting with people as it is about connecting people. People like people that socially invest in them and help them further their interests. This will let you develop a solid reputation because people like people that both give and take (and not only the latter).
Always remember to sort yourself out first though. After all you're not a charity.
The best way of networking is by being the hub of your network. You know person A and person B but they don't know each other. You also know that person A is looking for services which person B supplies. You connect those two and you made both person A and person B happy and hopefully they'll repay the favor later on.
This is a bit of a theoretical example but not far from how it works in real life. I've been contacted by headhunters for jobs I at the time had no interest in but knew people in my network who might. Just by reaching out to the headhunter and giving him the names of people I know might be interested, I've made the headhunter happy and the persons I referred happy.
My other take on networking is how to network with people you don't previously know at events and in other situations. I've struggled with this and still do to an extent since I also find this a bit phoney and sleazy, but it doesn't have to be! I have come to the conclusion that A) I can't network with people I have nothing in common with. Some people can do this, but I'm not one of them. B) Networking with people you DO have something in common with comes naturally.
In summary 1) Try to help the people in your network by being the connector and you shall receive. 2) Focus your efforts and energy on networking with people you actually enjoy having a conversation with and share some interest with.
This right here is the best comment I read on this thread. Definitely agree that the key to proper networking is being the middle of the web.
In terms of skills and in-office tasks, be the guy who knows how to do everything and where everything is. People will always think of you first. In terms of people, be the guy who knows everyone and what they like/do. People will always think of you. ALWAYS be looking to connect someone when you can't deliver what they want. By raising others up, you are raising yourself up.
Anyone have a girlfriend? She was a stranger at one point. You ever start a job? You were a stranger at one point. Networking is simply reaching out to people who share some type of similarity and introducing yourself. I'd suggest people who find this uncomfortable test out their skills in a lower key environment. Think meeting people at a bar, mixer, charity event, etc.
Also, develop stuff to talk about. I almost never talk about work related things when I meet someone (unless it is warranted). Talk about area restaurants, books, current affairs, the conference, whatever. It is all about being friendly.
Go read How to Make Friends and Influence People.
Even if you are talking to someone in the hopes they can help advance you somehow, the reason they might even do that in the first place is if you have potential to help advance them somehow at some point. So when you think about it that way, it's not sleazy...it's a partnership, a collaboration. And so it is with any relation. So relax and have fun with it.
Look, I'm not going to badmouth networking. At worst, it is often a necessary evil for people trying to break into a field; at best it can really help peoples' careers. I've chosen to spend most of my "networking" effort (AKA being a nice person) internally. People switch firms all of the time; people get promoted all of the time. While I get mildly jealous when I see that former coworkers are updating their LinkedIn statuses to VP, SVP and Director in various front office roles while I spend two years in school, I'm also happy for them and I realize that their position- and their memory of my work- is a huge asset if I ever find myself on the job market again.
I also try to stay in touch with people who wanted to hire me at other firms. These are people who know I'm not really networking with them for a job and it reduces the level of phoniness.
I try to avoid relationships where I'm in them to ask someone else to help me. This is easier said than done if you're an undergrad trying to get a job or someone trying to break in. I always managed to avoid it, but the hiring decision comes down to the interview for techies and quants in entry-level positions, which is somewhat unique in the finance industry. The promotions are all about knowing your stuff and being nice to people.
To be honest, outside of sales, I think that networking by front office professionals- or other professionals happy with their general field- needs to be a lot deeper than what people typically call networking. You need to have deeper connections than people you meet every once in a while at an industry conference. Those people might give you a lead on a job, but they won't necessarily go to bat for you for a really competitive role or a really nice job.
Good post but I think the approach needs to change once people are generally where they want to be, assuming they do not work in a heavy sales role. Networking becomes more about forming genuine friendships with people in the same general field as you- I would not call this "networking".
The whole idea of paying it forward makes most sense. Thanks all for the great advice!!
Why do you think networking is sleazy? Many times people will spend 15-20 years building a great career and nobody in their life (i.e. wife/kids/family) really understands what they actually do / all of the difficulties they've surmounted / how talented they really are. They may feel that they have nobody to share all of their knowledge, expertise, etc. with. If you come in and show them that you're really interested in what they've done and want to follow their lead, that's powerful. I wouldn't underestimate this dynamic at all. It isn't sleazy.
IMO, everything in life is networking. Your entire career is about being connected and knowing people. I'm talking inside and outside of work. Knowing the bartender, the restaurant owner, a tailor that you can refer, a dude who sells cars you can hook up, people at other banks, whatever.
Think of yourself as the center of a spiderweb. Network with people accordingly. I mean when you go out to the bar, what do you do? Do your sit in the corner? No, you hunt and kill. Same thing with everything else in life. It isn't phony, it is making friends and contacts.
I'd suggest getting involved in a variety of things in your city, going out with different groups of people and having them bring their different groups of friends out. Circulate and mingle. And ask friends to introduce you to other people. It helps them expand their network and yours at the same time.
Perfect story. I added this HH in NYC to my linkedin. I know a ton of HH's because I always get people emailing me their resumes so I needed a source to feed them to. Randomly added this guy. I saw on my LinkedIn feed a week ago a job that was cool. Thought nothing of it. I was talking to a friend today and it just clicked that this person would be good for this job. I shot this "stranger" an email, told him I was referring a choice candidate and sent the job and info off to my friend.
Boom. I helped this random HH out and my buddy out, all at once. See, this is everything in life. Someone asks about a restaurant, recommend something. Etc Etc.
I don't know. Some people enjoy it, some people hate it. I personally thrive connecting and helping people.
The word 'networking' is offputting for some people. Just show an authentic interest in other people's life and/or work and things will unfold fairly naturally.
"Hey, how's your day going?" & remember whatever they talk about. Ask some questions & you're done.
Everyone is more than happy to talk about themselves & whatever is happening in their world.
I agree about being the crux of all your connections, but getting to that point can super tough for an introvert. Remember who you meet, what they say, and keep a general temperature on the type of person they are.
We're all just people.
Couple of other thoughts, get involved. Want to be in real estate join ULI, like portfolio management go to CFA society events. Find ethnic or other affinity group like Prospanica (used to be National Society of Hispanic MBAs), CREW (Commercial Real Estate Women, I believe?). Volunteer if you have the time, these sort of activities can put you in contact with a lot of potential mentors. Since you're coming up through some sort of ready made connection they are likely to be more open to the idea. If you're in school still find out if there is an alumni mentoring or executive/entrepreneur in residence and leverage it. Go to speakers, my non-target undergrad had done a phenomenal job of getting local luminaries and successes involved and I wish I'd done more in that department.
I also found a 3 part networking strategy helped. I reached out to people related to my career interests i.e. Bankers, Lawyers, Big 4 TAS, PE, HF, anything with a finance bent that could get me towards my goal. I think everyone does this. I then spoke to people in my dream geography, south Florida, these were non-financiers, but it helped bulk up my network in the region and they usually knew someone who was good to talk to if not necessarily in IB. Finally I reached out to industry/interesting folks, I knew I liked healthcare and I also knew there were interesting alums whose brains I'd love to pick irrespective of whether it fit with my career aspirations. I also knew if I went into industry these contacts would help. The beautiful part is you avoid the myopia of only talking to finance folks and if you move up these connections outside finance become more important.
3 Tips on How to Make Networking Worthwhile and Get You a Job (Originally Posted: 01/16/2018)
So you’re having trouble getting an interview through online applications. One way to bypass this obstacle is to get your foot in the door by meeting with people at the types of companies you want to intern/work with. This way you can show your skills, qualifications, and passion in person rather than through a resume scanner. Here are some ways to boost your networking skills and more importantly, get some meetings.
1) Shoot your shot – When reaching out to high-level people, not everyone is going to respond. You are going to have to put out several requests in order to get a response. This does not mean sending a cold email to the Managing Director at every Wealth Management group in your city’s metro area. DON’T BE THAT GUY. It is very easy to tell when emails/letters/notes are not genuine. This brings your chances of getting a response from low to zero. When you set time aside for networking and outreach, construct well-written emails to send to 4-6 people you could benefit from meeting with. If you get zero responses the first time you send out a batch, do it again.
2) Come Prepared – Ben Franklin once told us that not preparing for a meeting or interview is the same as preparing to fail. If you get a meeting with someone, research his or her company and the career path this person took to get where they are today. Again, there is a balance here. Don’t be creepy and bring up every deal this person closed during the 90s. The Internet gives us a lot of information these days. You do not need to bring up the fact you found out this person’s son is studying abroad this semester without context. Feel out the conversation and if there is opening, take advantage and show that you came in knowing what you are talking about.
3) Be straightforward – Do not go in thinking this person can give you a job or help you out right away, however be clear in your goals. Even if this person cannot help you directly, maybe they can point you in the direction of someone who can. Don’t be afraid to be straightforward and ask if there are internship or entry-level opportunities at the company. The answer will probably be no if it’s a smaller company, but you need to shoot your shot.
Yes! +1 SB on different industries.
I'm a pretty young guy, but knowing people across many industries and different levels of seniority has been a huge help in helping me plan out my future career. Also, I am infinitely more valuable to my contacts when they drop a subtle line about something they think I may have no connection to. Being able to connect them with a person of interset only solidified some of my relationships.
ifried, way too quiet in here. What about these resources:
Who will rescue this thread? jdskalka thisonetime tiago.sekiya
Fingers crossed that one of those helps you.
Another thing that is often forgotten in networking, is cultivating the relationship once the initial meeting is over. Staying in touch, checking in and sending relevant news to the person you connected with can strengthen the connection and will ultimately benefit you in the future.
How to network your way to the job? (Originally Posted: 07/25/2016)
I know networking threads have been made, but I have a specific one pertaining to it. This is not at a BB or for IB btw. Just wanted to clarify that.
I saw a position that I like the sound of, found the VP of the department on LinkedIn, connected, and messaged him, and he repsonded back saying we can definitely chat and for me to email him my resume. I did so, and he replied back saying someone from his team will be in contact with me this week. My question is, I have not applied to said position yet, should I wait to hear from a recruiter/hiring manager or should I just apply now on the careers site?
Still haven't heard from anyone from his team. Also didn't apply for job but getting nervous right as its been posted for two weeks now and I'm sure they are in process are interviewing candidates.
What should my next step be? Do I email VP again?
In your position, I would go ahead and apply for the job and contact him again.
He probably forwarded your email to the person from his team and that person may have checked first if you applied. You never know. He also might have gotten busy and forgot to forward your resume - shit happens.
If nothing happens the second time, you'll know it's a hint.
Apply for the job, keep waiting, move on to your next choice and start networking through Linkedin
I've tried to find emails of contacts of firms I'm interested in but not much luck so I'll connect with them and then message them. Problem is, besides who I'm talking about in my OP no one answers me lol
What can i email the VP to not sound desperate/annoying?
"Hi xxx"
Just wanted to touch base regarding xxx position....
Not sure what else to say lol
When sending emails like this, don't over-think, over-analyze, or over-explain. It helps to read your emails out loud and you can do the reverse as well - say it out loud like you were having a conversation and write down what you say.
Fill in the first blank with the position and the second blank with whatever feels natural to you.
"...wanted to see if I could reach out to the person involved." "...was wondering if the position had already been filled." "...wanted to see if there were any updates." "...wanted to make sure it was still an option." "...wanted to confirm if I was still in consideration." etc.
Basically, if you had to go up to this guy in person, perhaps in his office, and only had a couple seconds because he is very busy (he is), what would you say? You would say something to the effect of "Hey, wanted to check the status of what we talked about. Hadn't heard from anyone. Any updates?" Put that into written form and you get the example above.
How to be prepared for a networking opportunity? (Originally Posted: 07/27/2006)
I will be going to a convention soon where I will most likely come across quite a few people already in the idustry. Thus, it is probably a good chance for me to network.
How can I be prepared for such a situation in case if I come across any I-Banker?
Just to let you know my background is not in finance. I studied purely quantative subjects.
Any suggestions ?
a Path group event?
No,
A Convention I might go to pretty soon. Its the annual convention held by my fraternity every year.
Any suggestions...
how to interact with your Network (Originally Posted: 01/11/2011)
I just submitted an intern application for a mid-size office of a large bank. I know a VP (strategic planning) there and she’s willing to help.
How would you interact with her to increase my chance of getting the intern? Tell her I’ve submitted the application? Or ask for help later if didn’t get selected for interview? Or else?
THANKS!
Tell her you submitted your application and stay in touch with her. Ask a few questions about the bank, ie culture and whatnot(make sure she knows that you're interested in the internship). Ask her if she has any advice for the recruitment process. Just don't flood her inbox and ask stupid questions.
Thx. very good advice!
How to network in this situation (Originally Posted: 01/21/2013)
Hey! I'm currently a 2nd-year student aspiring to get into IBD by the summer after my 3rd year. One of my former scoutmasters went to Harvard Business School; I've had a GREAT relationship with this guy from 6th grade to 12th grade. We did some kickass summer expeditions together during this time, and he even spoke on my behalf at my Eagle Ceremony in 11th grade. How could I go about using him to maybe get a summer internship for me through one of his HBS connections? I think he was in management/marketing, but I think he would inevitably meet some guys who went into IBD at bulge brackets or even boutique firms.
Call him to catch up, update him on you schooling and let him know what you're interested in. If he cares enough and looking to help, once he finds out that you're looking for a banking position, he will openly refer you to the right individuals in his rolodex that can perhaps help you out in your search.
Good luck
Agree with the top. Everyone loves a call from an old buddy!
Post Networking-How to get them to help you. (Originally Posted: 08/05/2015)
So I have been networking with people at a couple different BB for a couple months now. Have made very good connections(multiple in person meet ups, exchanged cell numbers etc). My question is how do I take the next step. You cant just blatantly say to someone "Hey so I am going to apply to be a summer analyst here, please help me out". I was just wondering what the correct way to go about this is. Thanks fellow monkeys.
Wait it's not? Half the time I just give them a heads up telling them I'm applying and if they could spare a phone call that'd be great. They usually just respond with I'm swamped right now, but I'll forward your resume to the recruiting team.
So far it has worked for me. I figure if I've gotten to know them...why should I beat around the bush. They know why I fostered the connection as well as I do.
I feel like "Ill forward it to the recruiting team" would work for online apps but not as well for OCR. Since I go to a school where most BBs do OCR is there a better way to go about this?
How to use networking correctly? I'm clueless (Originally Posted: 07/03/2016)
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Worked for me a couple times is to ask for advice on recruitment and how to best position yourself for the positions you're applying to.
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