Some Thoughts on Networking

Following in the footsteps of @Sil"'s recent post ("Want to get me on the phone? Here's how - a networking overview.") l figured that I would share some random musings on networking.

1) Forming Relationships:

First and foremost, recognize the networking is actually about forming relationships it's not a transactional thing. I'm not going to go to bat just by virtue of somebody having talked to me once, but with that said given my busy schedule I try and make myself as available as possible for people trying to break in. I'm not that many years removed from struggling to get into finance and I get it, particularly having come from a non-target undergrad.

To change your approach from being purely transactional to actually being relationship based, try and add some value. I certainly appreciate it when somebody follows up with an article they've seen that they think might be interesting or if they congratulate me on the transaction that my group has recently closed. Also, make sure to check in from time to time, give me an update on how the job search is going or what you're up to. Just don't be too persistent or to frequent it's ok to hear from somebody quarterly, maybe even once every other month, but not every couple of weeks that's excessive. Also if it's possible try and meet in person, it's far better than over the phone.

2) Preparation:

Next have intelligent questions ready when you do talk. If you don't have a conception of what I do it's not going to be a particularly meaningful conversation. Ask me about things that you can't find with a simple Google search: group culture, direction/strategy and the like. Also it should go without saying, but don't ask about compensation, I've actually had people ask me that and my response was invariably it's competitive and then I took their resume and threw in the garbage.

3) Network across all levels:

Finally, network across all levels of the industry you are targeting as well as allied professions. Far too often you see people only trying to speak to very senior bankers. The reality is analysts and associates are generally the ones involved in undergraduate and MBA recruiting. Plus as time goes on the senior bankers are going to retire and you want your network to truly last.

3b) Get creative:

Be creative about who you network with as well. Even if you went to a non-target it's almost certain that some of your alumni have gone on to decent accounting firm's or have gone to law school and have gone into big law. These alumni generally know a fair number of bankers or at least some people that might be willing to talk to you. While an audit partner may not necessarily be in the know about M&A they should at least be able to give you a referral over to either the in-house investment bank, people in finance roles at their clients, the M&A tax guys and their colleagues in consulting. Remember to always ask for referrals.

 

I usually tell them I did some research and I was wondering How they do their job. The answer does reveal many differences in the way things are done at banks, but also it has a lot of repetition. Good question if you find a good way to ask it (suggestions?), because the way things are done can be a significant part of company culture.

It really depends on where you apply. For example, you would ask more about the job and how they do things at a smaller no name regional bank, because there could be much more variance there than at a BB Investment bank. Mia 2cents.

**How is my grammar? Drop me a note with any errors you see!**
 

Ask about culture and direction, neither thing is going to be on Google. Ask about growth, if you're not growing in this business you are dying. Ask about how deal teams are structured, my firm is very lean usually just a 2 or 3 man deal team and that has both significant advantages and disadvantages.

I would also consider asking what a breakdown of time is between pitching and actually working on mandated deals.

 

I asked a guy about culture, and he asked me what I meant. I guess it was that persons first time too. This was for a commercial banking position at a community bank, so maybe they don't get a lot of calls from students. At least he kept it real and didn't hold back on his view of the negatives.

This article really shut down my networking game.

Edit: woops replied to wrong person.

**How is my grammar? Drop me a note with any errors you see!**
 

"If you want a friend on Wall Street, get a dog."

Simple, IMO. People want to network with others b/c a.) makes them feel like they are paying it forward, or b.) they might be in a position to help them in the future. These people know what you want when you are networking.. they don't want a friend..

Array
 

These aren't your friends, they're coworkers and professional contacts. SOME people may end up your friends, and I like when I end up friends with people, but if this was just about hanging out most people would be back home throwing back beers with their boys. Welcome to the adult world. And don't worry, I made the same mistake right up until about maybe two years ago.

Get busy living
 

I actually feel the same way. I'm in 2nd year, and to all these events or coffees, sometimes I just don't know what to say that adds value. I've been to a couple of coffees with professionals, and a) I feel like I don't know anything close to what they know, and b) I can tell, that they can tell, that I don't know much and I'm just spewing out irrelevant, typical "networking" questions.

I see myself building professional contacts by working alongside people, asking/telling questions, stories, concerns, etc. about the job and general field (keeping it professional). That way, once you know the person, they're technically a contact.

Ultimately, I can see some people who don't "like" me (or don't enjoy the chat I try to initiate) - maybe due to look/personality/speaking/words/etc. Others really like me and I can get along with them. I find NO point in networking or talking with people who give off a vibe that they don't want to be around you. That tells me you can't network with just anyone. Yet some people seem to do just that, and like OP said, there is a desire to be like that.

 

Start trying to learn things when you talk to these people. Frankly, if you're not enjoying talking / learning about deals over a coffee, dunno how you'll cope doing them at 3am.

"After you work on Wall Street it’s a choice, would you rather work at McDonalds or on the sell-side? I would choose McDonalds over the sell-side.” - David Tepper
 
  1. Be genuinely interested in your job/career, and not just for the money, but actually for the work.

  2. Be genuinely interested in people that work in your field, and in learning from them.

If you abide by those two rules, all of your networking questions should flow naturally, because if you're actually interested, you'll know what you want to learn more about from them.

As for networking being "phony," you just need to get that dichotomy out of your head. It's true that networking isn't making friends, but it actually is about developing relationships with people. You aren't just asking people for help, you're developing a relationship so that down the line you can also help them out, too. It isn't selfish at all.

 
Khayembii:

2. Be genuinely interested in people that work in your field, and in learning from them.

You aren't just asking people for help, you're developing a relationship so that down the line you can also help them out, too.

Came here to say this almost verbatim.

I've never networked at seminars or sessions, but I've done a ton of cold emailing and it has worked for me. If they agree to meet or talk to you, demonstrate a genuine interest in learning about them and what they do. People I've spoken with actually found that refreshing, after the dozens of kids who've walked up to them and asked for a job.

Learn from them, ask intelligent, specific questions and stay in touch with them later. When the time comes, and since you're just beginning it most likely won't, be willing to return a favor or two.

Move along, nothing to see here.
 

Try be more open-minded. Whether you like it or not, you're constantly networking, even with your friends. You just enjoy being with them, thus making it not feel like networking. I think it gets a lot easier once you enter the workforce. Side conversations here and there with your coworkers helps build up relationships over time and you won't even realize it.

Granted, networking events for college students looking for internships and jobs are probably the most uncomfortable situations since it's blatantly obvious what the parties want from each other.

 

If you already have a FO job or a job that gets a lot of FO interaction, your efforts are best devoted to doing good work, being nice to people you work with, and helping people you've worked with on the career front. If you know of an opening at another firm that someone would be a good fit for, connect the necessary people.

Networking helps you get jobs, but having a reputation helps too. And if networking with strangers feels weird and phony (it does for me too), helping coworkers and friends feels a lot more natural.

Have your coworkers and a small group of genuine friends in the industry. Perhaps some of them are in your analyst class? Help those people out and hope they return the favor.

This is how an introverted quant with simpler (not poor) social skills "networks". Help people that you could probably trust to help you some day. And develop a reputation for doing good work.

 

Agree. Also, try to 'friend' people. If you leave industry, you walk away knowing some cool people. There is a protocol in many cases, but try offbeat stuff or work on other people's comfort level and you'll be surprised at how easy it is to get a more in depth conversation.

About the digital only approach: I did this at first as well, but there's a catch. You'll most likely connect with other people who are most comfortable using digital only. You want to break out of your comfort zone and it can be uncomfortable. GOOD. It's supposed to be. Try new things and you'll get better. It's like excercizing a muscle, you have to stress it to grow.

Get busy living
 

I have a relatively large "network" (or did during recruiting) but only a few mentors --the people who did the heavy lifting in getting my ass ready for recruitment. These are people who you like and who like you. Think of the phoniness of the process as being necessary to find these few people. For every hundred contacts I found one or two mentors and they were great.

 

I like @"IlliniProgrammer"'s approach to networking.

Believe it or not but the people you sit in the trenches with will most probably some day have some degree of success. Don't be afraid to help people out on your level. If you know one of your acquaintances/friends wants to break into infrastructure finance and you happen to have met a VP in infrastructure finance at a recruitment event, make sure to connect them (given that you believe your acquaintance/friend is worthy of it and is a strong candidate).

Because guess what: if they hit it off and you hooked up a guy with his dream gig he's gonna remember that for the rest of this life and the VP will also be happy to have recruited a great candidate that he otherwise probably would have ignored (f.e. if your acquaintance/friend is from a non-target). This sort of stuff displays numerous traits that people like to see in candidates - a more senior skill-set. If you understand the game know, think about how much damage you can do at the senior level.

Remember: Networking is just as much about connecting with people as it is about connecting people. People like people that socially invest in them and help them further their interests. This will let you develop a solid reputation because people like people that both give and take (and not only the latter).

Always remember to sort yourself out first though. After all you're not a charity.

 

The best way of networking is by being the hub of your network. You know person A and person B but they don't know each other. You also know that person A is looking for services which person B supplies. You connect those two and you made both person A and person B happy and hopefully they'll repay the favor later on.

This is a bit of a theoretical example but not far from how it works in real life. I've been contacted by headhunters for jobs I at the time had no interest in but knew people in my network who might. Just by reaching out to the headhunter and giving him the names of people I know might be interested, I've made the headhunter happy and the persons I referred happy.

My other take on networking is how to network with people you don't previously know at events and in other situations. I've struggled with this and still do to an extent since I also find this a bit phoney and sleazy, but it doesn't have to be! I have come to the conclusion that A) I can't network with people I have nothing in common with. Some people can do this, but I'm not one of them. B) Networking with people you DO have something in common with comes naturally.

In summary 1) Try to help the people in your network by being the connector and you shall receive. 2) Focus your efforts and energy on networking with people you actually enjoy having a conversation with and share some interest with.

 

This right here is the best comment I read on this thread. Definitely agree that the key to proper networking is being the middle of the web.

In terms of skills and in-office tasks, be the guy who knows how to do everything and where everything is. People will always think of you first. In terms of people, be the guy who knows everyone and what they like/do. People will always think of you. ALWAYS be looking to connect someone when you can't deliver what they want. By raising others up, you are raising yourself up.

We are here to drink beer. We are here to kill war. We are here to laugh at the odds and live our lives so well that Death will tremble to take us. - Charles Bukowski
 

Anyone have a girlfriend? She was a stranger at one point. You ever start a job? You were a stranger at one point. Networking is simply reaching out to people who share some type of similarity and introducing yourself. I'd suggest people who find this uncomfortable test out their skills in a lower key environment. Think meeting people at a bar, mixer, charity event, etc.

Also, develop stuff to talk about. I almost never talk about work related things when I meet someone (unless it is warranted). Talk about area restaurants, books, current affairs, the conference, whatever. It is all about being friendly.

Go read How to Make Friends and Influence People.

 

Even if you are talking to someone in the hopes they can help advance you somehow, the reason they might even do that in the first place is if you have potential to help advance them somehow at some point. So when you think about it that way, it's not sleazy...it's a partnership, a collaboration. And so it is with any relation. So relax and have fun with it.

 
<span class=keyword_link><a href=/resources/skills/finance/going-concern>Going Concern</a></span>:

Even if you are talking to someone in the hopes they can help advance you somehow, the reason they might even do that in the first place is if you have potential to help advance them somehow at some point. So when you think about it that way, it's not sleazy...it's a partnership, a collaboration. And so it is with any relation. So relax and have fun with it.

Sure. And that's why it ultimately comes back to hard work at your current job and having your coworkers like you. You have to have something to offer, and your coworkers know exactly what that is. If you haven't worked with someone, and you play a conservative game, you'll tell people to interview that person. If you spent two years working with someone, and they did good work, and you LIKE them, you'll tell people to hire them.

Look, I'm not going to badmouth networking. At worst, it is often a necessary evil for people trying to break into a field; at best it can really help peoples' careers. I've chosen to spend most of my "networking" effort (AKA being a nice person) internally. People switch firms all of the time; people get promoted all of the time. While I get mildly jealous when I see that former coworkers are updating their LinkedIn statuses to VP, SVP and Director in various front office roles while I spend two years in school, I'm also happy for them and I realize that their position- and their memory of my work- is a huge asset if I ever find myself on the job market again.

I also try to stay in touch with people who wanted to hire me at other firms. These are people who know I'm not really networking with them for a job and it reduces the level of phoniness.

I try to avoid relationships where I'm in them to ask someone else to help me. This is easier said than done if you're an undergrad trying to get a job or someone trying to break in. I always managed to avoid it, but the hiring decision comes down to the interview for techies and quants in entry-level positions, which is somewhat unique in the finance industry. The promotions are all about knowing your stuff and being nice to people.

To be honest, outside of sales, I think that networking by front office professionals- or other professionals happy with their general field- needs to be a lot deeper than what people typically call networking. You need to have deeper connections than people you meet every once in a while at an industry conference. Those people might give you a lead on a job, but they won't necessarily go to bat for you for a really competitive role or a really nice job.

Good post but I think the approach needs to change once people are generally where they want to be, assuming they do not work in a heavy sales role. Networking becomes more about forming genuine friendships with people in the same general field as you- I would not call this "networking".

 

Why do you think networking is sleazy? Many times people will spend 15-20 years building a great career and nobody in their life (i.e. wife/kids/family) really understands what they actually do / all of the difficulties they've surmounted / how talented they really are. They may feel that they have nobody to share all of their knowledge, expertise, etc. with. If you come in and show them that you're really interested in what they've done and want to follow their lead, that's powerful. I wouldn't underestimate this dynamic at all. It isn't sleazy.

 

IMO, everything in life is networking. Your entire career is about being connected and knowing people. I'm talking inside and outside of work. Knowing the bartender, the restaurant owner, a tailor that you can refer, a dude who sells cars you can hook up, people at other banks, whatever.

Think of yourself as the center of a spiderweb. Network with people accordingly. I mean when you go out to the bar, what do you do? Do your sit in the corner? No, you hunt and kill. Same thing with everything else in life. It isn't phony, it is making friends and contacts.

I'd suggest getting involved in a variety of things in your city, going out with different groups of people and having them bring their different groups of friends out. Circulate and mingle. And ask friends to introduce you to other people. It helps them expand their network and yours at the same time.

Perfect story. I added this HH in NYC to my linkedin. I know a ton of HH's because I always get people emailing me their resumes so I needed a source to feed them to. Randomly added this guy. I saw on my LinkedIn feed a week ago a job that was cool. Thought nothing of it. I was talking to a friend today and it just clicked that this person would be good for this job. I shot this "stranger" an email, told him I was referring a choice candidate and sent the job and info off to my friend.

Boom. I helped this random HH out and my buddy out, all at once. See, this is everything in life. Someone asks about a restaurant, recommend something. Etc Etc.

I don't know. Some people enjoy it, some people hate it. I personally thrive connecting and helping people.

 

The word 'networking' is offputting for some people. Just show an authentic interest in other people's life and/or work and things will unfold fairly naturally.

"Hey, how's your day going?" & remember whatever they talk about. Ask some questions & you're done.

Everyone is more than happy to talk about themselves & whatever is happening in their world.

I agree about being the crux of all your connections, but getting to that point can super tough for an introvert. Remember who you meet, what they say, and keep a general temperature on the type of person they are.

We're all just people.

 
Best Response

Couple of other thoughts, get involved. Want to be in real estate join ULI, like portfolio management go to CFA society events. Find ethnic or other affinity group like Prospanica (used to be National Society of Hispanic MBAs), CREW (Commercial Real Estate Women, I believe?). Volunteer if you have the time, these sort of activities can put you in contact with a lot of potential mentors. Since you're coming up through some sort of ready made connection they are likely to be more open to the idea. If you're in school still find out if there is an alumni mentoring or executive/entrepreneur in residence and leverage it. Go to speakers, my non-target undergrad had done a phenomenal job of getting local luminaries and successes involved and I wish I'd done more in that department.

I also found a 3 part networking strategy helped. I reached out to people related to my career interests i.e. Bankers, Lawyers, Big 4 TAS, PE, HF, anything with a finance bent that could get me towards my goal. I think everyone does this. I then spoke to people in my dream geography, south Florida, these were non-financiers, but it helped bulk up my network in the region and they usually knew someone who was good to talk to if not necessarily in IB. Finally I reached out to industry/interesting folks, I knew I liked healthcare and I also knew there were interesting alums whose brains I'd love to pick irrespective of whether it fit with my career aspirations. I also knew if I went into industry these contacts would help. The beautiful part is you avoid the myopia of only talking to finance folks and if you move up these connections outside finance become more important.

 

Yes! +1 SB on different industries.

I'm a pretty young guy, but knowing people across many industries and different levels of seniority has been a huge help in helping me plan out my future career. Also, I am infinitely more valuable to my contacts when they drop a subtle line about something they think I may have no connection to. Being able to connect them with a person of interset only solidified some of my relationships.

...
 

ifried, way too quiet in here. What about these resources:

  • How I got a 770 on the GMAT... whitecollarandsuspenders version problems you don't know how to solve! Move on to guessing strategies. Strategy Tips General Strategy ... approach and make sure you can solve them and know the path to solve them. Do the mistake analysis on the ... use it. Next step is to turn mistake into action item- how to
  • Want to transition into acquisitions- MBA worthwhile? actually led me to WSO not too long ago. I would greatly appreciate any insights or advice you can give. ... real estate and development. Ended up getting a job out of college in CRE brokerage, where I have been ... way of investment sales. I am wondering, do you think it would be beneficial for me to pursue an MBA ...
  • How to spin returning to same small boutique because didn't get any worthwhile offers? anyone had any advice on how to spin this come interview time in the fall for full-time opportunities. ... Hello all, Long story short, I struck out pretty hard with regards to getting a good junior summer ... internship this year. So i'll be returning to the same firm I spent my sophomore summer. Wondering if ...
  • If you can't get into a top 5 MBA program, don't even bother question: "What do I need to do on my application to get into an MBA program?" However, before ... general management skills and as a result, many talented hires had to be taught on the job the basics of ... course for talented individuals to get a fundamental overview of how big business worked. MBAs were not ...
  • How I'll survive graduation and you will to diploma. You've learned everything from how to cram for tests, change your major (multiple times), and ... you've also learned how to stomach copious amounts of cheap booze, slay bitties, and stumble your way ... hopefully both worthwhile and enjoyable is exciting. Now you have money to do shit- fun shit- like booze ...
  • What I Learned From Both Getting Dream Job And Then Dumped In One Day impart is, please, if you have someone special in your life, make sure to acknowledge them even more than ... individuals accomplish. Getting a job is a great feeling, but losing someone you care about hurts more. So ... anything they set their mind too. I spent most of the past day on Cloud 9. But life decided to throw me ...
  • build network while in BO then get MBA- worth it? sometimes just for the hell of it How worthwhile is building a network, then getting an MBA, and then using ... this network. Is it possible to get MBA paid for / line up interships or a job beforehand? ... I' m in BO and just realized that I and friends at other banks have access to the company ...
  • More suggestions...

Who will rescue this thread? jdskalka thisonetime tiago.sekiya

Fingers crossed that one of those helps you.

I'm an AI bot trained on the most helpful WSO content across 17+ years.
 

Still haven't heard from anyone from his team. Also didn't apply for job but getting nervous right as its been posted for two weeks now and I'm sure they are in process are interviewing candidates.

What should my next step be? Do I email VP again?

 
yankss101:

Still haven't heard from anyone from his team. Also didn't apply for job but getting nervous right as its been posted for two weeks now and I'm sure they are in process are interviewing candidates.

What should my next step be? Do I email VP again?

In your position, I would go ahead and apply for the job and contact him again.

He probably forwarded your email to the person from his team and that person may have checked first if you applied. You never know. He also might have gotten busy and forgot to forward your resume - shit happens.

If nothing happens the second time, you'll know it's a hint.

Commercial Real Estate Developer
 
wannabeconsultant999:

Apply for the job, keep waiting, move on to your next choice and start networking through Linkedin

I'll do that.

I've tried to find emails of contacts of firms I'm interested in but not much luck so I'll connect with them and then message them. Problem is, besides who I'm talking about in my OP no one answers me lol

 

When sending emails like this, don't over-think, over-analyze, or over-explain. It helps to read your emails out loud and you can do the reverse as well - say it out loud like you were having a conversation and write down what you say.

Subject: RE: Job

Mr. Guy,

I wanted to check back in with you about the _______ position we discussed. I have not yet heard back from anyone this week and _________________.

All the best,

yankss101

Fill in the first blank with the position and the second blank with whatever feels natural to you.

"...wanted to see if I could reach out to the person involved." "...was wondering if the position had already been filled." "...wanted to see if there were any updates." "...wanted to make sure it was still an option." "...wanted to confirm if I was still in consideration." etc.

Basically, if you had to go up to this guy in person, perhaps in his office, and only had a couple seconds because he is very busy (he is), what would you say? You would say something to the effect of "Hey, wanted to check the status of what we talked about. Hadn't heard from anyone. Any updates?" Put that into written form and you get the example above.

Commercial Real Estate Developer
 
Old Grand-Dad:
Tell her you submitted your application and stay in touch with her. Ask a few questions about the bank, ie culture and whatnot(make sure she knows that you're interested in the internship). Ask her if she has any advice for the recruitment process. Just don't flood her inbox and ask stupid questions.

Thx. very good advice!

 

Wait it's not? Half the time I just give them a heads up telling them I'm applying and if they could spare a phone call that'd be great. They usually just respond with I'm swamped right now, but I'll forward your resume to the recruiting team.

So far it has worked for me. I figure if I've gotten to know them...why should I beat around the bush. They know why I fostered the connection as well as I do.

Why get your own coffee when you can get an intern to do it for you?
 

Ut officia quibusdam atque et et corrupti dolorem. Enim ut error sint. Sint voluptas possimus occaecati officiis non dolores. Totam est quo numquam autem. Enim est numquam dolores et similique.

Voluptas dolores dignissimos occaecati non sint facilis consequatur nemo. Veritatis molestiae nihil quaerat esse esse ut quae. Perferendis et accusantium ipsa voluptatem excepturi. Aut non officia rerum. Tempore dolor explicabo sint et quo nam qui.

Sit voluptatum sed harum est est aut qui. Ea doloremque cum molestiae quo quaerat repellat neque.

Career Advancement Opportunities

March 2024 Investment Banking

  • Jefferies & Company 02 99.4%
  • Goldman Sachs 19 98.8%
  • Harris Williams & Co. (++) 98.3%
  • Lazard Freres 02 97.7%
  • JPMorgan Chase 03 97.1%

Overall Employee Satisfaction

March 2024 Investment Banking

  • Harris Williams & Co. 18 99.4%
  • JPMorgan Chase 10 98.8%
  • Lazard Freres 05 98.3%
  • Morgan Stanley 07 97.7%
  • William Blair 03 97.1%

Professional Growth Opportunities

March 2024 Investment Banking

  • Lazard Freres 01 99.4%
  • Jefferies & Company 02 98.8%
  • Goldman Sachs 17 98.3%
  • Moelis & Company 07 97.7%
  • JPMorgan Chase 05 97.1%

Total Avg Compensation

March 2024 Investment Banking

  • Director/MD (5) $648
  • Vice President (19) $385
  • Associates (86) $261
  • 3rd+ Year Analyst (13) $181
  • Intern/Summer Associate (33) $170
  • 2nd Year Analyst (66) $168
  • 1st Year Analyst (202) $159
  • Intern/Summer Analyst (144) $101
notes
16 IB Interviews Notes

“... there’s no excuse to not take advantage of the resources out there available to you. Best value for your $ are the...”

Leaderboard

1
redever's picture
redever
99.2
2
Secyh62's picture
Secyh62
99.0
3
BankonBanking's picture
BankonBanking
99.0
4
Betsy Massar's picture
Betsy Massar
99.0
5
dosk17's picture
dosk17
98.9
6
CompBanker's picture
CompBanker
98.9
7
kanon's picture
kanon
98.9
8
GameTheory's picture
GameTheory
98.9
9
DrApeman's picture
DrApeman
98.9
10
Jamoldo's picture
Jamoldo
98.8
success
From 10 rejections to 1 dream investment banking internship

“... I believe it was the single biggest reason why I ended up with an offer...”