You Did it Citi
Another 4 am night while I paid for the dinner myself. I am officially not calling you a BB anymore and will try every avenue to get out of here, which is also what I strive to accomplish for the last couple of months.
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please tell me this wasn't a bake off
I don't follow. Aside from you paying for your own dinner, this is classic BB behavior.
FTFY
Meanwhile Citi has record year in SPAC fees...good luck explaining the penny pinching during recruiting cycle!
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Hey bro, they posted a rainbow flag and a black square. Citi CARES, ok?
When recruiting at Citi, I got incredibly weird vibes from the people I interviewed with. They were pushing the diversity factor so hard that it felt like that was all I was worth. Got the offer, didn't take it.
Me too. It all felt very surface level and shallow. Also did not accept offer.
Would expect nothing less from the bank that picked the Obama cabinet in 2008 (srs, google it)His admin loved forced diversity, critical race theory and other nonsense.
While I'm not a proponent of Citi necessarily, all banks are doing this now at recruiting events. It's just a thing they have to do now so that no one calls them out for not doing it. Sucks and can absolutely come across as disingenuous but that's how it is these days.
Several of us recruiting Citi in a regional office. Did the coffee chats, started getting pushed through the process. A few weeks out from super days, get a call from an alum there:
"Hey, do you guys have any minority candidates instead?"
He stated they were being asked to fill from our school a minority specific slot.
Do they really not see how counter productive that is?
I get the same vibes. I know a guy from UG who does S&T there (something squidy like prime finance desk). I’m in IB M&A at an EB, so I steer pretty clear from these freak shows
Wow that's wild, thanks for sharing. Of course I have my own views and opinions, but at the end of the day I don't really care what people do with their lives, just don't shove it down my throat. I believe in meritocracy. I'm still a student not in the industry yet, but I've read that the "eat what you kill" culture has been discouraged or already gone, being replaced by wokeness. I hope I am proven wrong.
Likewise — I lied that I was gay and they didn't think twice. Never took their shitty offer bc what exit opps can u get from Citi LMAO
Can confirm. They looooooove to shove diversity, inclusion, and their global presence down your throat every chance they get. I guess that’s what happens when they absolutely destroyed Wall Street in 08; they try and rebuild with this progressive virtue signaling bullshit
I work at citi. can confirm. I have had to sit in on some "diversity trainings" which are comical
When Citi came to my semi-target, they told me they only were looking to hire women. #Proud#ThatsMyBank
State colleges are the best place for diversity kids to be placed in the back office.
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from an almost mid-level (feels good to say this...), I can say there is no way in hell it makes sense to NOT pay for dinners... just the attrition costs alone would definitely justify it
Lol very accurate
+1; 100% agree. As a fellow mid level banker (I am a junior originator who brings in a decent number of deals) I make sure my guys are happy. Almost all of these expeneses get billed back to client anyways.
Even things that aren't officially reimbursable, but deal related, I tell my guys to put it through. Simple example: my team is working on something important until really late at night, have already passed firm expense limit for dinner, but are still hungry and want more food or want to go for drinks when they are done. If the firm gives them trouble, I tell the admins/expense managers (as politely as I can) that "I approve [and f off]". If there is a huge conflict where the firm won't pay, I've paid out of my own pocket (rare, but happens).
Also, as someone who was more execution focused not that long ago, it's so frustrating to be penny pinched on things when I'm busting my ass. I've noticed that when someone is penny pinching they are usually not bringing in revenue (either an admin or a low performing MD).
We need more people like you in the industry!
Could you speak to the process of deal origination as a midlevel?
Where are you sourcing from?
School alumni?
Family friends?
Alumni from analyst class now doing PE or corpdev?
Just generally formed relationships from all the different transactions you've worked on?
Guessing the last two are the biggest, but idk what I'm talking about.
Just to give a counterpoint, at least at my BB the MDs are not in control of this. The expenses are processed offshore via a computer program which catches things over the limit and then a team of people in India who review those things and pass it onto Compliance. There is no mercy. Expense violations are not to be fucked with.
Now THIS is a boss I'd work 115 hours a week for
Shitty Group
HAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAA. I never heard that one. HILARIOUS!! Keep them coming. SB'ed
lol i just got it
im at citi too -- generating insane fees this year and coinbase ipo just in the news today. pls give us expensed dindin cuz the top dogs are getting paid this year
- Please let us expense dinner
- Please start protected Fridays @ 6:30pm
- Please Increase base salary for analysts by 20% and 10% for associates (why are my friends working 9-5 in tech (not SWEs) making more than me?)
- Please provide an anonymous report portal so we can rat out VPs that are toxic and unprofessional
- Replace Citi IT with people more competent -- shouldn't take 20 minutes to change a footnote because FactSet is lagging everything
- End virtual desktop madness and replace skype with slack
You said it brother, my life would be 2x happier if they did half of them
What roles?
Most likely PMs
Wells Fargo analyst here — 6pm protected fridays has been a major morale boost with very little harm to productivity. Friday’s feel like my most efficient/productive day because everyone knows it ends at 6p.
^^^This. I've worked in many places where we had 3PM Fridays and honestly I felt everyone was super productive that day because we all wanted to go out and enjoy. However if the culture is about being in the office just so you can prove to your MD that you stay in late, you'll actually be less productive.
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Yes, the best way to deal with toxic / unprofessional superiors is to "stand up for yourself." What a joke.
What problems have you been having with the Virtual Desktops? Once in a while I have trouble signing in (white screen) and have to call up IT. Only happens once every couple months or so though. Same thing?
Where is Parth Patel?
Hahaha of course they wont pay for your dinner when they just lost 500 millions 😂😂😂 soon they will prob send their office electric bill to you to
OP here. Don't really understand why anyone would ms as if I said something wrong besides incompetent mid-level (VP) bankers at Citi who browse this forum. In which case, you should try a least get back the meal stipends for us.
Is there any other EB/BB that doesn't provide dinner after a year of WFH? I have friends as Wells Fargo said they don't but doubt many of their coverage groups are as busy & toxic. Stay this way you'll keep losing talents and become more desperate at hiring new people
If it helps, Barclays didn't have the policy for a long time but we just re-instituted it last week.
Thank god we did. 9pm is a bit bullshit but also im usually working past 9 anyways.
WF here, coverage / M&A groups are very sweaty atm. The no meal expense thing makes it worse. Buddy at Citi says it's even more brutal. Truist sounds like hell too
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Citigroup? More like...Tittygroup!
Shitty group.
(I just came up with this joke right now by myself)
On a related note, one of my favorite things is how all BBs preach how much they care about ESG, yet they practice indentured servitude and work their juniors 85+ hours a week lmao
Yikes
Dang that must sting
Tell him people at Netflix get to bring their pets to work and help with laundry
Jesus.
This is how you lose talent. Why is he acting like a meal expense is coming directly from his pocket? Lol.
I’m sure shareholders would have no problem paying for a meal expense if it leads to (a) more productive (b) and more talented employees.
Leave it to a Citi MD to not understand the concept of marginal vs. aggregate
Its funny but we are seeing a massive brain drain happening in finance. Its shit like this why people in our industry are going to tech jobs, where you are generally more valued. The old world of finance with thick expense accounts is over. Analysts have to fight for a simple meal now. Honestly fuck Citi and fuck that MD. Also his logic is that analysts make more than people their age, this is true, but you're getting double pay for double the hours. Tell Corbat to take a $1M pay cut and use that money to feed analysts. I guarantee you the analysts will be more than enough productive.
Well, Corbat is retiring, but your point still stands.
The gas, parking, and depreciation thing isn't even accurate. I just searched it up and there's a light rail stop right next to Citi...
My new favorite quote:
”You ahead of the game already”
He wouldn't have sounded like a total POS if he didn't end with that 2nd paragraph.
The best argument they make is when they say but I made X when I was your age and your making Y.
My response is always, what would you make now inflation adjusted? I pull up an inflation adjusted chart and hammer home!
typical "you should be grateful with XXX already" boomer garbage...
wow, brutal
wow what a fag
Its not even a money thing. I don't have time to make food or pick it up. I'm getting slammed by dick head mds like this guy all evening. The wellness hour thing doesn't exist inn practice because of shitty mds like him.
Do you mind reposting the image, maybe as a reply? The link is no longer working.
All the analysts should leave....
Can't believe they aren't paying for overtime dinners. It's not like the bank bears the burden of the cost either, it's all passed on to the client... Really poor move on Citi management not allowing for paid dinners. I don't want to speak for all analysts but if the worry is that analysts will go nuts expensing dinners from home if they aren't even working, it's kind of misguided given that the one thing wfh has provided for analysts is a loss of all boundaries from work/life. At my bank we're trying to make sure analysts don't feel disengaged from the bank and their peers given their work hours have pretty much become a constant and one tiny way (I stress, tiny, this should not even be in question) of showing we know they're working is letting them continue to expense overtime meals. I hope Citi comes to their senses soon.
If banks want to replicate office working environments from home, then they can't deprive the soldiers of the "benefits" which come with it - which in this case is a $25-30 meal stipend.
Forget RBC... Citi is not a BB anymore!!!!
Lol this was a joke
The beatings will continue until morale improves
These stupid penny pinching maneuvers are all the fault of those stupid business management people. They have them at every firm, they work 40 hours a week, and they seemingly exist to make the lives of the employees that actually make the firm money miserable. And then everyone wonders why turnover is high. I wish they could step into the shoes of the average investment banking analyst-perhaps they wouldn't shortchange analysts anymore.
Doesn't help this stuff stings because of banks having such strong years. Perhaps this wouldn't taste so bad if banks didn't make a ton of money from investment banking in 2020. If it were an '08 crisis, maybe then it would be more acceptable. Instead it feels remarkably hollow.
Dont forget your role could be outsourced to India for 300 rupees a month,
300 rupees hardly buys three meals there anymore LMAO
You know I hear that all the time. But then I see a bunch of those same folks in India fatfingering a $900mm payment to Revlon lenders and I stop worrying.
They hire those guys to cut expenses so they can then use those savings to pay the salary for these guys. They're as big of a waste as HR
is this Houston? Analyst at the firm just told me the same thing. If so, would you say avoid Citi Houston? I am currently in their process and have another offer at a MM
you already have an offer for SA22 from a MM?
yes, I by chance had a call with the firms Global Co-head of IB, and he was an Alumni, and we just absolutely hit it off. Then this week the other Co-head reached out to me, we had hit it off, and next day they called and made an offer. However, the firm has not kicked off their interview process, but has opened up applications. I have an accelerated final round at Citi Houston, but from what everyone is saying it seems like I should stay away from Citi's Global Energy Group.
I'd avoid unless no other offers
I have an offer to a MM, and I really like their senior bankers. The only thing that is holding me from accepting the MM is the "Citi" name. I appreciate any insight.
Across the board
Citi (read shitty) is getting dumb day by day. Middle management is everywhere with no sense of direction. Rigid in their thought process and have unrealistic expectations. It becomes so difficult to explain a simple concept to your manager who wavers on his decisions every other meeting.
These fucktards keep on assessing the business value for something that ends up getting scrapped after wasting months of work. Can't even mention risk to be the primary factor as they have clearly blown that and got caught with their pants off.
All meals get billed to clients anyways. A very small portion will stay on the banks p&l. There is an allowance, typically $50-100k, for deal related expenses in every engagement letter. This used to be 75% travel-related and now with no travel it’s basically just analyst meals which is nothing in the grand scheme of things
It does look funny when you run expenses now and it’s like an analyst who has $5K of food bill and not much else. Before it hid under all the flights, cabs, etc. but we did have a client ask are we paying for all your food now?
also unless you charging to a deal that’s about to get done, it’s mostly going to show up in some BD P&L
Firms have been doing stuff like only 3 meals a week expensed. That makes it more likely it's just being used on days where the junior member is working late (unless you're like me and working at a firm where you're getting crushed 5+ days of the week).
GS and Citi not a BB - no dinner expensing :(
At Gs, you can come in and they have food for you
Citi has had a reputation as tightwad dickheads literally since the early '80s when I was in college (and maybe before). It was not only IBD, but seemingly baked into firm culture with the retail banking sub having the highest fees in the industry and being known as "Citiream." At one point they actually started charging $6 to see a teller in a retail branch, but had to cancel it within days due to a universal razzberry and PR disaster.
Wait so you're like 55 years old? Guys I think we found WSO's oldest member!
Got a summer analyst role secured at JP and then interviewed at Citi for a 6 months role. MD was a huge dick (even the recruiting guy told me before I entered the room). ED was a dick too. The Associate was really laid back, worked on a deal in my home country so we really connected.
When I finished the super day I seriously felt I didn’t want to work at the bank. Would take the offer to improve my CV, but would never work there. In the end, MD, ED jumped ship after 1y, so did the recruiting guy.
bump
Citi comes off as a sort of Ib wal-mart. I don’t have a lot of experience with them but I would imagine the offices are kind of shitty with pizza boxes and shit everywhere. Don’t even know why I think this but I’m going to just assume I’m right
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Let's also not forget that Citi provided no WFH setup stipend until the end of July. They had analysts working on kitchen tables in cramped apartments on their personal laptops for months during a pandemic, and didn't even provide them the money to buy a monitor or a mouse.
The firm probably thinks that it can get away with its cheapness because few people are going to leave over this during covid, and covid will be mostly over by the time the people currently recruiting start. That misses the point though that your current juniors resent you as a firm, and every recruit knows you as the cheapest bank on Wall Street and the firm that didn't give a WFH dinner stipend. Why pick Citi over BofA when they're comparable firms (really, BofA has the better name), but BofA is giving people $50 per night? Goldman also doesn't provide a WFH dinner stipend, but why would anyone pick Citi when both are cheap, but Goldman's name is drastically better?
Then we hear things like "Citi has risen to the challenge and delivered for our clients and each other during the pandemic. We are in a great position as a firm." It's disgraceful.
Firms offered WFH stipends???
Yes...
Total of $800 at my EB.
They are probably relying on the "we gave 100% return offers" to carry them anytime COVID criticism comes up.
Do we think anything is going to change with Jane Fraser taking the CEO suite?
poll i posted to our linkedin https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:6772247995770658816
"Who should pay for dinner, banks or employees?"
Out of curiosity, do any of the groups at citi have good culture (at least within the group) and / or decent exit ops? Understand their telecom group is a sweatshop, but how about m&a (maybe good exits?) and sponsors (normally good culture in most banks)?
Their industrials group is supposed to have a good culture.
M&A is sweaty, Industrials (depending on vertical) / CRG have good culture last I heard. CMO groups too.
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does Citi now allow for late night meals?
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