How bad was MF MBA placement this year
Anecdotally felt my circle and class of associates above me did not get into H/S this year. Curious if others observed the same and what it takes to get in now a days…
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Yes, it is well documented on here that MBA admissions at H/S is only getting tougher for PE associates. Firms that were once a guaranteed acceptance to H/S a decade ago like Bain Capital or Berkshire no longer have the great placement they use to.
PE as an asset class has grown massively, so there are way more associates (bigger funds, more firms, etc.). Schools are not increasing or decreasing the seats they have for MBA associates. They are keeping it constant, while the number of applicants from PE is rising. Breaking into PE is not nearly as hard as it used to be, so there are way more people applying from PE.
Is it due to too many competitive applications coming from PE associates or due to admissions favoring non-PE or non-finance background? I read an article while ago that MBA programs want to diversify their student profile, but I'm not sure if that's exactly the reason.
I think bluntly its because MBA programs are a business. They realized that churning out a bunch of upper middle class finance people gets them relatively small dollar donations each year vs. using a VC strategy and betting on engineers and ex-consultants who go to startups and then become the 1 / 10,000 that create a unicorn and donate a few hundred million back to the school. Additionally, H/S recognize the need for MBA is declining in the US, so they'd rather fill all their slots (especially diversity slots) with rich internationals from prominent families. They want to cement the value of their brand among the elites in emerging markets and realize that, by accepting the children of oligarchs, they are also likely going to get large dollar donations from them in the future. H/S' current classes reflect this - everyone is from a rich family, the only Asians they accept are from ultra wealthy families from India and China (not Asian Americans), and all the "diversity" candidates are the children of oligarchs from Africa and Latin America. Outside of this, they take a few people with "feel good" stories (like veterans and a few people with compelling life stories) to support their brand value and feign egalitarianism. If you aren't a diversity candidate or from a rich prominent family or they don't think you're going to start a unicorn, it is very difficult to get in.
In short, they see no financial value in admitting students whose career ambition is to be MM PE partners and will never be able to give them massive dollar donations.
Business schools increasingly want to diversify their classes and allocate a greater share of the seats to students from backgrounds that are non-finance/consulting, international, ethnically diverse, etc. This mirrors broader changes in the world over the last 10 years (e.g., geographic distribution of global economic growth, proliferation of DEI, rise of tech) and I fully expect this trend to continue.
Imagine the world 50 years from now, when a cluster of Asian countries dominates the global economy and everyone has a chip implanted in their brain. Why would an elite MBA program, whose primary function is to maintain luxury brand value and relevance in a dynamic world by creating proximity to power centers, continue to offer American PE firms preferential treatment in admissions? Over time, more MF and UMM PE associates will go to Wharton, more UMM and MM PE associates will go to Columbia/Booth/etc., and so on.
Except global economic trends haven't reflect any of that us gdp as a share of global gdp (not ppp) has been +- 5% since the 60/70s. It's Europe that has relatively declined and China has risen (but good luck growing with a declining population now). India is still very early days (tbd but likely makes sense to bet on it). Japan / SK stagnant. The southeast Asian emerging markets are still quite small. Who would've guessed 10 years ago but the best bet is stil on America
Elite MBA programs are primarily luxury goods. Like Swiss watches or French wines, demand for them grows with global GDP as more people around the world attain access to them. The stakeholders involved here are not only the students but also the corporates/investment firms/nonprofits/government agencies and, importantly, donors. Look at how much the Ambanis donate to Wharton, for example -- it's no coincidence that a disproportionate share of the Wharton student body is comprised of Indian international students. To use this example, these seats have to be allocated at the expense of some others, since MBA programs only anemically grow their class sizes.
It's an interesting thought exercise. I generally agree with you on betting on the United States, and maybe also overweight India and certain other Asian and African countries. However, even if the balance of global GDP growth favors the US, the sheer absolute GDP growth of the developing world puts pressure on admissions for US applicants -- not to mention American elites wanting to be more cosmopolitan and placing greater emphasis on international/ethnic/career/other diversity.
Maybe post-MBA buyside firms might respond accordingly by recruiting from a larger number of MBA programs than they have traditionally, similar to how IB analyst classes were once more Ivy-heavy and now recruit more broadly.
Not true. Asians don’t give a fuck about white people anymore. Asians already know Asians are the best.
MF MBA placement this year was pretty tough (I am at a MF and I applied to H/S this year). Across a lot of UMM/MFs that were typically considered "shoo-ins", that number dropped to closer to 25-40% of the class being admitted to H/S. Even firms like Bain / TPG / KKR that typically place well have struggled tremendously recently.
I got in this cycle, but as I look through the group chats / slacks, what shocks me is the wide diversity of backgrounds. People from manufacturing in Nebraska, sales in Nicaragua, LMM PE in Spain...etc. Seems like the new deans are focusing on diversity across job categories + regions, and even though PE folks are often seen as the most traditionally impressive (i.e. target school with strong , BB / MF PE, etc.), that is not what the business school solves for.
In no world is business school admissions is a meritocracy - it is a contrived puzzle in which the adcomm filters through the tens of thousands of applicants to hitting their own KPIs. That is, having a high average / median GMAT, average GPA, sufficient representation across industries, countries, and gender, etc.
If you're a straight white male in NYC PE, you are not competing against the African woman who is doing HR in Latin America - you are competing against other people in PE. The marginal name brand in PE also no longer seems to matter - it is by buckets based off the fund size (i.e. MF vs. UMM vs. MM vs. LMM). Whether you are at Goldman or JP Morgan, KKR or CD&R - that won't be the breaking point. The breaking point is your story and why you are different than others. Also - whether you like it or not, you are competing directly with the people in your firm who are also applying in the same cycle. You are competing on GPA, GMAT, and most importantly reference letters. I've heard anecdotally up to 50% of the weighting of admission for many folks applying from the same PE firm is on the recommendation letter. If everyone went to an Ivy+, worked at a BB, and had a 750+ GMAT with decent consultant-crafted essays - everyone is solid on paper. If a partner says "this person is the best associate I've ever worked with in my 3 decades in PE and here are 2 anecdotes that show this" vs. another saying "this guy has high attention to detail, analytical, etc.", there is a world of difference.
I have strong thoughts on MBA consultants that I'm happy to share if helpful as well
Could you share your thoughts on MBA consultants? Thanks!
Please do share your thoughts on these consultants, feels like their value add is marginal and they are not worth the money (didn't use but I am considering applying for an MBA this year, and wonder if I should get one)
What did you think you did differently that got you in vs your peers
Realize it’s not applicable to your case but do you have any thoughts on spending a year at a portco to diversify your app a little bit? I’ve always been interested in the idea in theory and have heard it can help so curious to get your take
Also curious about this
Would really appreciate consultant recs!
Strongly recommend working with a consultant. I had a high bar as I had worked with one previous in the deferred process, but can tell you that it was absolutely worth it.
Understanding how to frame your story vs. peers in your category is extremely important, and they also help you to make very strategic decisions around who to get your rec letter from, how they should frame it, etc. Between my friends and I, we've probably worked with 7+ consultants and have a good lay of the land. If you go off anon, happy to DM you some recommendations, but it was worth every single penny. Mine helped me to completely reframe my story, and I truly believe she was the reason I was admitted from a framing perspective (aside from baseline credentials etc)
Appreciate any recommendations on consultants!
Would appreciate any recs!
Would appreciate some recommendations
Please send recs. Thank you!
Same would love any insights on recs!
Would also appreciate any recs!
Same here. Any recommendations on consultants are much appreciated!
Would also appreciate any consultant recs.
Would appreciate any recs! Thank you
Would love to hear some recs. Thanks!
Would love to hear what consultants you recommend, thank you!
I'd also appreciate recs, thank you!
I would also appreciate some recommendations. Thanks for taking the time to message us.
Would Appreciate the recs as well
Who did you use as a consultant?
Would appreciate your recs pls!
Would appreciate the rec!
Would love to know where you found your consultants for deferred!
Friend’s brother used DeferMBA last year and got into Wharton, Booth, Kellogg. Would definitely recommend them.
Would highly appreciate your consultant recs!
I appreciate the offer but please do not send me any recs under any circumstances.
Hey, would love some recs! Thanks!
would appreciate any recommendations as well - thanks!
Would love to hear your recommendations as well!
would love the recs too!! thank you :)
Going to push back a bit on the idea that HBS wanting a diversity of roles / geographies is somehow not "meritocratic." If I wanted to hang out with people at top buyside shops in New York...I would text my Penn buddies! It would be super easy to do that and not worth $X. And sure, tuition is never going to be worth the joke that is an MBA education, but you don't go there because it's the Manhattan Project and you want to shoot the shit with the greatest minds / GMAT scores of our age.
You go there because you want a break from your career as it's getting repetitive and burn-out-y, and you want to meet people who, guess what, do different shit! You go *because* you want to meet the Good Old Boy from Exxon, to get sloshed with the hot marketing (sorry, "brand strategy") chick from P&G to see if some fireworks happen, to go skiing with some Abu Dhabi prince with no discernible talents besides his bloodline. And guess what, they're all competing against the "types" in their category, too.
So yes, it sucks that you can't just submit a resume and get into HBS anymore when your banking MD literally just had to be an Analyst for two years at Lehman (and maybe an Associate for one) to go to GSB. Whatever, suck it up. Literally everything in the world is more competitive than it was 20 years ago. I hate the feigning a lot of us have to do about wanting to build a Kenyan water well or whatever when we're all just going to back into PE, but whatever you know how to be socially intelligent enough to differentiate yourself without coming off too cliche. Is it easy, or a sure thing? Absolutely not. Can you be a killer at your job and not even get an interview these days? Yup. Life sucks, nobody cares, and you will be more than fucking fine either way.
Would've thought MBA for PE associates would be less competitive as more and more top firms are forgoing the requirement for an MBA to get the senior associate promotion, but clearly doesn't seem to be the case. Does anyone know why this is? I feel like the choice to not do an MBA and just take the senior associate promote seems like a better alternative than going through the MBA process. I am aware not everyone gets the promotion, especially in rough economic years, but if what's been said above is true : only the kids who partners rave about get into the top programs and I assume those are the same kids that would get the senior associate promote.
You're right that the MBA requirement falling away has an impact. On the other hand, we have bigger ASO classes because of rip-roaring deal activity through H1 2022 (absent mid-2020 for a few months). PE firms don't really downsize these classes, just freeze them in leaner times like recently. The economy isn't great when it comes to deal activity and folks are wary about "making" the harsh funnel to VP. Lateral market is awful. So a lot of ASOs, especially at established funds, will cash in for two years at HSW and see if they can re-recruit in a more favorable environment in 2026.
Anyone have insight into MBA recruiting from tech MFs like Vista/Thoma/SLP? I know they don’t require MBAs for VP promo but I’m curious how they placed in recent years.
Bump. I’d imagine they have similar per capita placement since they’re still MFs, but the added benefit of not really competing against other associates in their respective classes.
Unless you want to pivot or jump start a stalled career, the value of an MBA is suspect.
Tickled by the fact that even as H/S won't admit their own associates, firms like Bain and Berkshire will refuse to look at candidates from other programs.
As I start my banking / PE stint I'm trying to set myself up for an MBA and have been reading r/MBA a lot. Just to confirm Booth is on par with H/S and better than W right? I don't get why most people that get money to Booth decide to go to W instead. But reddit is pretty convinced that Booth is by far the best. So that's what I should gun for right?
Booth has such a RIGOROUS curriculum focused on QUANTITATIVE skills and yet Boothies are such DOWN TO EARTH and remarkably FRIENDLY people in the WORLD CLASS city of Chicago. The PRESTIGE is almost too much.
Cool - that's what I thought. DE Shaw here I come
But also - this whole thread is a waste of time and pretty pointless than. Like as long as you get into Booth who cares (sarcasm)
Reddit is going to be full of Indian engineers or corporate-finance type folk. Of *course* they're going to try for the most cost-efficient path to get a raise or a banking MBA associate gig. This thread is HSW-focused because that's where the PE jobs by and large come from--and sometimes even with the exclusion of W!
Since so many eyes are on this thread, the WSO consensus is that H/S > W > M7 (Booth, MIT, Columbia, Kellogg) ...
Agreed. r/MBA is so bad nowadays. Used to be pretty good when I started using it in the late 2010s.
Why not just stay at your fund or move to another fund that doesn’t require MBA? MBA admissions are a total crapshoot - what’s the point of getting worked up over it or giving lots of attention? Just makes you more of a pawn.
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