dealing with inadequacy
Just looking for some insight. Currently a student at a target with all of my friends (and I) wrapping up recruiting. I did my absolute best at recruiting and ended up losing 20-25 lbs in the process due to stress. 700+ emails sent, 85 networking calls, countless interviews, a few superdays, and I ultimately got a single offer that's a bit out-of-the-way. It is particularly annoying when quite literally everyone I know received offers from Bulge Brackets, EB's, etc., and oftentimes I would learn got only asked simple technicals, and only needed to apply to a few firms (literally 3). I know a lot of people whose parents simply made a few phone calls and, even though they didn't know why equity generally costs more than debt, landed jobs at major EB's and openly talked down the jobs I'm going to be working when I graduate, oftentimes (unknowingly) to my face.
I know this is just a massive cope, but what do people do to try to stay positive in these situations?
in the exact same situation as you man except i lost 50 pounds lol - I'll dm you but it's really about having the mindset that at the end of the day it's a job and no one gives a flying fuck as soon as they start working
If yall are losing that much weight shooting around emails it sounds like it was some good weight to lose fatsos.
yea was really confused on what kind of tubbo is losing 50 fucking pounds sending some emails lol wtf. Must be some turbo lard asses recruiting cause no way
Screw Ozempic, Doctors should prescribe IB recruiting to people
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Echo these guys. As a fellow gen Z I know all too well the pain of being told your whole life that you’re special only to find out that you’re really not - or at least, not yet. The reality is 99.99% of us have to start from nothing and work from the ground up to become anything close to notable. I still remember getting my first lay, my first physique compliment, first internship, first IB job, great rating, great bonus, promotion, and just realizing “fuck, I’m still the same guy with the same life just with a slightly better <x>.”
If it makes you feel better even the fuckers with job offers in Evercore top group are probably realizing (or will realize soon enough) they’re not special… now they’re just a normal guy with a slightly better job than the next guy. You get to a point at 25 where, no matter what company you are lucky enough to slave for, you realize the special folks (if anyone) are the 25 yo actors, musicians, pop stars, football players, nba players, entrepreneurs, research scientists. Office job workers just don’t qualify other than .00001% and usually at 60+ yo.
The rude awakening you’re getting now comes for all of us, ALL of us, it’s just a matter of time. What’s helped me is reframing my mindset to thinking I’m just a hoodrat fighting for survival. Every step, every win, every closed deal, every promotion, every workout, every vacation, every performance review, every headhunter outreach is a massive win in my head. It makes for a much more fulfilling life and career journey vs. thinking you’re a once in a generation level talent that’s just constantly underachieving your potential. Instead of thinking from top down “I’m so incredible why am I not at the top”, start thinking bottom up “I’m currently here, what can I do to become incredible and reach the top?”
That's so interesting how you wrote that since I'm in a fairly similar spot as you and I literally just mentioned something similar to a friend recently. She and I met in NY and discussed our respective careers: she's in medical school and I do equity research for an asset manager.
We literally both mentioned how we felt like "we're where we are, and we have to focus on what we can do now" was something we talked about. And the whole, "we're not special" idea I think applies to even some of the areas you mention.
We talked about some people we knew: we used to go to school alongside top research scientists and an mega-macro-level (in the context of funds: think low MF or strong upper MM level) content creator with MSD millions of followers on multiple platforms. The top research scientists feel like the pathway to professor is like climbing a rope that doesn't end and that the constant need to apply for funding is gut-wrenching. The content creator literally quit because her income was still too volatile, and now just works a desk job and posts maybe once every other week in Insta (the economics were better apparently).
I've begun to develop a theory that nearly everyone, even the people we idolize, at some point feel this way. If anything, I feel lucky to just have a job where my colleagues show up to work consistently and I actually feel like I'm delivering value.
How did you come to develop the hoodrat mentality?
I used to think this way during hs/college, and if anything now feel like I've, idk, "softened", during my work life the last few years? I mean I don't feel like I have to fight in the streets every day now, but I also have a ton of freedom in my current job, so maybe that's expected? Curious how it's worked for you too.
Love the above ^^ I have started to think like this recently. Focusing on every small win helps seek joy from what you already have accomplished, rather than what you wish you could have accomplished. Rather than having a sook about not being where you want to be, start winning the little battles that get you to where you want to be.
What a great perspective, thanks for sharing. Having seen multiple recruiting cycles of young'uns coming in, the transition from being a rockstar in high school, then at Ivy or investment club or whatever to hitting the desk and realizing you ain't shit is grounding.
One comment. One comment from you is all it took to change my perspective. Thanks man, needed that! Glad I came across this. Might have to keep coming back to this. The wrong mindset takes a while to change
amazing advice
Honestly, very fresh view on careers. And very simple. I love it. I need more of this mindset in my life.
One of the best comments on this site.
Epictetus - “It’s not what happens to you, but how you react to it that matters.”
Seneca the Younger - "“A gem cannot be polished without friction, nor a man perfected without trials.”
You (and Gen Z in general) need to learn to be more stoic about these things. You can either lie down and let it defeat you or keep going. Often I find it is those that walked the hardest paths that are most successful when they reach the top ranks.
Know that recruiting is 50% luck and 50% ability/effort. Do all you can to max out the ability/effort part but remember at the end of the day a lot comes down to luck which you can't change, but that's life. Focus on what you can change, because luck averages out over a 40 year career
Nah, it's all me son
so true
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Bro what? You feel like a failure because you landed a job which makes 7 figures if you're not ass and can grind the hours? WSO has rotted people's brains
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a lot of people in current market will grad with absolutely NOTHING lined up, i know a friend or two. I would be thankful for getting into a role with a major global organisation that will serve as a great platform to excel your career long term. Pull your head out.
I went to a BB for summer and didn’t get the return, and when I was recruiting for full-time I would’ve given an arm and a leg for a spot at one of those firms you mentioned. You don’t know what you have until you lose it.
If you don't mind me asking, what type of firm/industry did you end up for full time?
bump - how'd things end up for you?
For what it's worth I'd also kill to be in that spot. I ended up not going the investment banking route and am doing more of an entry-level corporate job that I am hoping to use to bump to something a bit better.
you're comparing yourself to 0.0001% of human population. compare yourself to 80% of human population that will never even dream about the money you'll be making right out of college, and you'll feel better.
THIS. Its the typical trope of remembering where you came from and to stay grounded. Most of the entire human population will never see the money that even one of us are going too make in our careers.
Also anecdote from my short life for OG poster or anyone else out to maybe help out if you feel the same:
I played baseball at a top #30 nationally ranked high school team, naturally everyone was very good and all of us could've/did play in college. I was a scenario of being a good baseball player but not best, could've played small D2 program or good D3 program. My team had ~14 D1 players and a couple are going to be future MLB draft picks (1 already got drafted). I got 8 at bats all of Senior year since my team was talented as hell and D1 players were in every spot. Some didn't put in as much work as me and naturally you get annoyed but it always helped to remember what the "average" skill level of a high school baseball player was, gave me peace of mind that I still achieved something a lot of people couldn't such as simply just making the team and having the option to play in college which only 12% of all highschool players have at any level D3/D2/D1. So remember when you go to your non BB/EB/Top MM IB job after you graduate and make $100k+ before bonus to think about what other 22 year-olds and even other full grown 50 year-olds are doing and how ahead you are in life because the hard work you put in to get that one "bad" IB offer.
Good advice from everyone above. My 2 cents - being in IB does not immediately make you happy. Being incredibly successful monetarily does not make you happy (it can help). Keep trying, but if you do not get in it is not the end of the world. Don't invest everything into the bucket of your job because if you are not diversifying what gives you meaning you are setting yourself up to be upset when something happens that you can't control.
Keep recruiting, find a job you like, invest time into friends, family and hobbies, find a partner who makes you a better person and live your life. Stop putting so much weight into this one thing
this is just off the top of my head but what you can do is (ironically) set the minimum pay per hour/ salary of the position to 16.50 and then withhold one month's pay until they have demonstrated some level of competency. Makes sense right because if they are renting for the summer then their down payment already covers the first month so it's not like they'll be homeless and who doesn't have enough money for 30 days with of groceries (they aint eating like me thats for sure). Then you pay them on the 1st of the following month which is funny as fuck because then you don't automatically cut out the people who want to cheat and schmooze their way in right you actually let them in and let them make a fool of themselves only to find out they're gonna get paid the same as a Taco Bell line cook doing work that they hate/ are grossly underprepared for all summer. And then on top of exploiting them for labor I would haze them too its not like the SEC is gonna do anything about it lol I get stiff as a stick when big business crushes the underclass
So tired of these posts. Grab your fuckin sack and go do something of value. Shut the fuck up with this bullshit
So tired of these posts. Grab your fuckin sack and go do something of value. Shut the fuck up with this bullshit
Only two basic concepts u should have in mind:
1) A lot (A WHOLE FUCKING LOT) of people get to were they are through what we consider “luck” (family connections, dad owns the business, contacted the right person at the right time, etc.). U just need to accept that that’s how capitalism works. And its not bad, I think u would want to be able to improve your kids life when its your time and give them more opportunities. Its not bad at all because these benefits, even though they will always make it “easier” for some, diminish over time. Unless your dad is literally Jamie Dimon, once u r on the job a lot of it comes down to your own skill. The son of the MD wont be an MD if he is not good enough. The connection gets u the job, maybe could get u to the associate level. But at the end of the day the people at the top are the best of the best, so if u start at a MM bank but are really good, and someone starts at GS TMT with connections but is bad at his job, long-term your career will be “better.”
2) If there is at least 1 example of someone without those connections that achieved those EB/BB/MFPE offers, at least one (which there definitely is), then that person did better than you. That person did something you didnt do. Networked with the right people, knew something u didnt know, showed a better personality in the interviews, etc. it could be anything, but the fact that someone was able to do it and you could not means you can improve some aspects of you (and thats good, imagine what life would look like if u were perfect, it would suck to not have something to strive for).
With those two things in mind, it will be easier for you to both acknowledge full responsibility for your results, as well as feel good with the outcome because its what’s meant for you (would suggest to look at it from a stoic perspective).
I understand how difficult it is growing up and realizing that what everyone told you (that u r special and unique) is a lie. That there are many like u and many that are better. I struggled with that as well. The first step to overcome this feeling is asking yourself why you want to be special. Like literally think about it, why di you want to be that unique and be a top 0.1%? We r all going to die, even Elon Musk won’t be remembered in 1000 years.
Take it easy and look at it from the positive side (99% of people who try to work in IB can’t even get 1 offer, so you are one of the smartest students in the nation). Good luck man, I know its not easy at all to apply all of this and even I don’t all the time. Enjoy the offer and learn as much as you can there, you will have FT opportunities, lateral opportunities, on-cycle opportunities, and so much more in your career. Everything will be fine.
I would imagine part of your challenge was how much pressure you put on yourself. I'm also an undergrad at a target and found that once I detached and stopped stressing over interviews/calls, things went quite a bit better for me. At the end of the day, it's just a job.
Careers aren’t a race and they aren’t linear. So you didn’t get what you want. Life isn’t fair, but there are plenty of paths for you to get where you want to go.
Check out masters (now) or mba programs (after some working), you’ll get another bite at the apple and you may make some better friends in the process.
Go read David Goggins book and get back to me.
Stop comparing yourself to others and stop thinking small. Real success and wealth is built over time, not based on where you worked when you were 22. Do well at your job. Be highly ranked, referable, and compensated. Build expertise in something. You'll become desirable across your firm and others. Create upward trajectory, skills, and value for others and you'll do well. That said, if you keep your sad sack "woe is me" attitude you'll never be happy and probably never make anything of yourself.
was in a similar position last year. what helped for me was several things - 1) studying abroad, seeing the world, and new experiences. you'll realize there's so much more to life than the name attached to your workplace. 2) diversify your friend group. spend less time with people who sound like walking wso posts. 3) most importantly, reframe your perspective. for me, i thought about how my high school self would be overjoyed at landing something in IB. think about what that is for you. at the end of the day, this is a job that pays incredibly well relative to others, is very competitive to get, and will set you up for great opportunities down the road.
Sounds like a good moment due self reflection and humbling yourself. You thought because you were at a target that you were better then these jobs. The problem is you never were, even if you had gotten an offer you still wouldn’t be better then those jobs. Not because your inadequate but because all jobs are pretty essential. At the end of the day there is someone that got no offers, instead of making the same mistake you originally made thinking you were better then those jobs, start the change. Be proud of yourself, be proud of your offer. Maybe it’s not the outcome you hoped for but it’s also not the end of the road and you accomplished something great!
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