How to stop feeling like shit for not making it in IB?

There’s so much more to life than this career. If you look on here there’s about 10 posts a day talking about how miserable people are.

It’s more important to find something you’re interested in, passionate about, both of which usually correlate with making the world a better place. Find the silver lining in not having to work 100+ hours a week and no more self harm talk - the world is a better place with you in it.

Not in IB, so can’t comment on that side, but I am from the UK. I’ve read in multiple places (give it a google search if you wanna see for urself) that among all students, only around 1/10 get grad schemes, so by that metric, you’re already in the top 10%.

My friendship group is the opposite to yours. No one can get a job. 2 are at Tesco, 1 is at Homebase, and a few others are “travelling” a.k.a delaying the inevitable of not having a real job to come back to. This is despite a few having top degrees at top unis (goes to show a top degree at a top uni isn’t the be all and end all.) A couple are also on masters programs, delaying potential unemployment by another year.

With the state of the UK hiring market, having any grad job is a huge achievement, regardless of “name” or “prestige”, which will never beat hard work, in my opinion.

Just grind out ur grad scheme now, get qualified, learn the ropes, and you could probs transfer to IB down the line anyway. I’m pretty sure that’s a feasible route for accountants.

Besides, accounting is a very well respected, well payed career, especially as you qualify, get more senior etc. It pays well, should have much better WLB than IB, and gives you very strong skills/qualifications for going into other stuff.

You also gotta keep in mind this website, and your friend group by the sounds of it, presents a skewed reality of what a “normal job” is. The average grad wage in the UK is ~£33k, wayyyy off what banks are paying graduates now, and when only 10% of grads have a grad job, it makes you wonder what the other 90% are getting payed, and what experience they’re having.

Keep ur head up, you’re in a great spot, remember comparison is the thief of joy.

Not getting into IB is not the end of the world and it’s not as glorious as everyone thinks.

Ontop of that, there is always an option to get into a good grad school and join as an associate. I know so many people who were in a wide array of jobs from accounting to engineering who do a masters and switch tracks into IB. I can’t say if it is the case in the UK because I’m from the US but I assume it’s similar. Heck, I even know someone who switched from back to front office.

There are also so many other jobs and careers out there in the field of finance. Don’t let your school define you… and trust me that you don’t want to like those people who build their whole identity on “Wharton”, as they are pretty unpleasant bums to be around.

Try your best with the cards you got dealt with, think of ways to make yourself a better candidate (ie. MBA) and take every opportunity that arises. All else will follow.

As Jensen Huang said infront of a group of Stanford students, “I wish you all a little dose of pain and suffering”. Resilience defines us so if IB is for you don’t give up but don’t forget there is also a whole world out there outside of IB.

it ain't over till it's over

if you're in accounting/big4, fight to go transactions/valuation, and then fight to go IBD

it's possible and can be done. I have seen it before

you can consider taking a masters/MBA etc. 

Don't worry man I remember fumbling a lot of interviews as well but had some really good advice from a few coffee chats from Goldman Sachs IB Directors (Which I also fumbled) which was "Whether its a career in banking or any other industry, make sure you're doing what you love" and I am pretty sure Investment Banking isn't the only career that you love. In addition, if you still want to get into Investment Banking you can always get a Masters in Finance or an MBA and transition.

Look man I failed over 50+ IB interviews but it only takes one yes, my favorite quote is "When one door closes, another one opens". Also I had a similar mindset of comparing myself to others but you shouldn't do that because the only person you should care or compare yourself the most to is yourself and no one else.

Comparison is the thief of joy my friend.

People out there who get Jefferies hate the fact they couldn’t get a BB offer, people who got UBS hate the fact they couldn’t get GS, the GS guys wish they were in the TMT team… it never ends.

If you really want IB you can get there - I’ve interned at various MMs in the UK and worked alongside loads of folk from BDO, Mazars, RSM, Big 4… who got their head down for 3+ years to become ACCA or ACA qualified and then jumped into IB at the Senior Analyst or Associate level.

When you eventually get into IB (if you still want to), you will realise it’s not all that and will likely plan and exit.

PM me if you want to OP.

Happy to share my story if it helps. I was in a similar boat and instead I flunked my university degree at a Russell group. Was more interested playing top flight rugby, chasing women and doing stuff with the marines than doing shitty science.

I now work at an EB, and before that was a BB and a t2 bank. It took me a while to break into IB but I did it. I even wasted money on a mba here (which is useless for ib recruiting in London). In my time I've worked in London, HK and NYC.

IB certainly isn't everything. Too many gimps on this site make it and prestige their whole personality. Because I never post Anon I get shit constantly from little prestige dweebs on this site because of my history. It makes me laugh, these people are the saddest and don't let their chat and opinions colour your reality.

Decision one is to stop drinking and harming. You need to get out of your bad heads pace  otherwise its a vortex that will destroy you. 

As others have said - stop the comparisons. It will only hurt your mental frame. Focus on your path and goals and execute each step.

Get qualified as an accountant and you'll soon find opportunities. It's a great qualification to get into M&A roles at big 4 and Boutiques at analyst 2 level. Then you can lateral up firms from there. One VP I sit next to used to be in deloitte corp fin as an example.

I remember your other thread. I also remember some of the toxic shit you were saying. No surprise you’ve posted yet another thread complaining about not making it to Cambridge/IB.

My advice? Seek help. Professional, psychological help. You have one gigantic chip on your shoulder and you’re obsessing over something that quite literally 99.9999999% of the world has no idea about, much less gives a shit about.

You didn’t make it into banking first time like others. You could still make it later. You might not. Who knows. Obsessing about it in such a negative, borderline whingey fashion like this won’t help.

If you evaluate your current position and what you may be able to do in the future, its probably not that bad. I think your main issue at the moment is comparison. You mentioned being in an inferior position due to having worked less than they did, rather than being any less competent. I understand the regret, but don't beat your own self worth for it, quite literally just a mistake from the past. Make the most of what you have now and keep building man.   

Brother Leon Black started in KPMG Audit! Get hustling and never give up

Hi there!

First of all, I think it is best to adjust your emotions. Bad emotions like frustration are harmful to your health and they cannot change anything you are concerning to make your life better. So be optimistic! Everything which is “bad” is based on your perception and your perception might not be totally yours because it may be strongly shaped by the social norms or other factors.

Second, if you really want to have therapy for those bad feelings, you may ask for help in the wrong place. This forum is filled up with “elite” “students or worker” who are extremely eager to break into investment banks, so most ppl may not have the empathy to echo with you (or even they fear that one day they fail as you do.)

There is a very efficient way, which is to try to encounter different groups of people in the world ( =open your mindset). Those people may have completely different backgrounds and lifestyles with you, but they are still living happily, and probs never have heard about IB or IBD, or not at least so obsessed with it. They will let you know that life has a variety of options, but not a single “ get it or the end of the world”.

At least in my opinion, mental resilience is very important in life. One of the most horrible things is having a bunch of students straight out of high schools and devoted themselves fully into one path (IB or something) without careful consideration and corresponding mental maturity. This is actually pretty dangerous, and many people have not realized it.

With that, I am not criticizing that IBD is something not worth chasing for. Exactly the other way around, I admit this is a pretty nice starting point for your career. But personally I feel this path desirable because it is one of the most efficient ways to make my life better. So “making life better “ is the goal. If I invest in so much in the negative emotions about that, then my primary goal cannot be achieved primarily. Then obviously I will not cry for the spilled milk. Hope this logic can somehow help you.

And for me, another more important reason is that I really feel what investment banking is doing somehow creates value ( regardless of how people spit on that). I will not go into details because I don’t want to be recognized. Sincerely, I gave up the other areas I explored in the first several years of my college to work my ass off towards IBD because I really believe in the value of it, and I am willing to make a lot of sacrifices for that ( no wlb, super long working hours).

Recently, I am preparing for my incoming SA internship. Sometimes I also feel anxious about the returns. But all in all, I am telling myself that “look back what you have gone through and what brings you there, you will work hard and things will figure out. Allowing everything to happen and be a stronger self.”

Probably that is the biggest takeaway to recruit for IBD: I am not only fighting for a job, I am fighting to be a stronger and better version of myselfz

record yourself whining and live speaking your thoughts. Then go back and watch the tape-  see how  bad it sounds?  Stop whining.
 

Focus on what you are good at and move on. Enjoy your life. There a good chance you could find a career that suits you much better and will give you a better lifestyle. Go out there and find it! 

All this bullshit you are whining about is because you are young and in that 20s stage where you all are trying to jockey for some bogus position in the social strata.  Here’s a tip from someone 20 years out, none of that matters. Go own and operate some fast food joints and make more money than some lame ass banker. 
 

the perpetual whining on this site has reached fever pitch…no bueno 
 

Every post I read about Europe helps further solidify the fact that it’s an unprofitable hellscape and anyone with a brain should avoid doing business there. You want my honest advice? Emigrate to the US. The average high school dropout-turned real estate agent is richer in the US than your average top undergrad European. Taxes, low quality of living (seriously, where the fuck is your A/C? And you can’t even afford to put ice in people’s drinks…), and less job opportunities. Why live in Europe?

You saved yourself 2 years of pain and misery

Hey man. You can definitely still break into IB. You're in a good place. Dont beat yourself up!

There's a strong culture in London of taking Grads from Big 4 accountancy firms into investment banks - these are qualified-accountant-only applications so you would also be competing with very different people to the "elite competition" at IB grad level (many will not have been able to have broke into IB at Graduate level).

My advice would be to stop beating yourself up over this as you're actually still in a good place. In London, many bankers are former Big 4 and often end up as better bankers as they have deep accounting knowledge (sometimes excessively deep haha).

Next, make sure you get your accountancy qualification. I know some try to do things to avoid this (e.g. move to a division that doesn't require this) but then you miss out on eligibility for these ACA/ACCA IB roles. Also, put in every effort you can to passing first time - they often look for this.

At the same time, network within your organisation to eventually move to a role internally that's closest to IB. In Big 4, this is often Deals/ Transaction Advisory. People within Big 4 are always trying to get into here so it will be a little hard but very possible with good networking and doing very good work such that people support/back/vouch for you. It will likely be tough to move right now, given the overall market situation and I believe internal moves are hence on hold, but if you maintain the relationships you could move down the line.

Also, I don't know your financial situation- e.g. parental help, etc. However, another viable pathway (potentially quicker but a little more risky) is doing a Masters at a target uni. Once you've got this on your resume, your undergrad Uni no longer matters as much.

The LBS course in Masters in Financial Analysis (MFA) is a very good target and frankly, if you do well on the test and can afford it, you'll get in. The course itself is very straightforward and practical orientated - designed specifically to break you into the industry. May be worth saving up the 50k needed for this course (along with parental help and government loan if available).

Hope this helps man. Your past experiences shape you. You'll be person with much greater humility, endurance, and wisdom when you break in down the line.

Good luck pal. We're all still rooting for you so you can't just give up on yourself. Stay strong, stay healthy.

Jesus H, I already gave you advice on the previous thread you posted asking for advice.

Maybe I should make clear my position...I am a prospective trainee in psychiatry. I have seen cases where people have REALLY fucked up their lives. I'm talking about failing high school 5 years in a row. Or violent crime, drugs/substance abuse, severe disabilities, whatnot. I'm not trying to say "they have it worse". I'm trying to give you PERSPECTIVE. You've got your whole life ahead of you.

I honestly don't think meds would help you (This does not constitute medical advice). At its core you're dealing with shame and regret. You're living in the past. You've got to see a clinical psychologist/therapist if you can't stop living there by yourself. You've got to change your attitude. Treasure the opportunity you have right now. Who makes more - an accounting partner or the guy who did 2 years of MS IBD and flamed out? 

You know what? Even if you got a IBD position, you would still be doing it for all the wrong reasons - elite job, whatever. Do you think you'd last for long? At no point have I gotten the idea that you are even remotely interested in finance for finance's sake. I think it is likely that even in IBD/PE, you would get to somewhere in the middle VP level and stay there ~ if you don't have what it takes to reach the top in high finance, is the outcome really that different from working your way up in your current accounting job?

Trust me no one in the real world gives a shit about the firm you work for, or the university you went to. If you really care about how others "see" you - how you project yourself - your demeanor, tone of voice, attitude, all the charisma skills - is far more important.

I don't give a lot of advice on this forum. But with you, this is more so a medical problem, not a career problem. And I have seen so many patients where it started with this and they let it slide to a point of no return. Just don't let life beat you down at 21. You feel like your problems would be solved with that IBD post. I feel like your problems would be solved if you could just get over how people see you.

Not to pour salt on your wounds but I’m also in the UK. There are people from non-targets that get in.

I've started drinking a lot since it helps with the pain from self-harm and it does help me avoid getting negative thoughts. I just don't feel good and I'm miserable with how things have turned out. I don't know what to do but I can't keep feeling like this. I'd rather be dead. I just want to learn how to move on from my failure and stop it affecting me like this.

Prob start with stopping the drinking and hitting the gym. so cliche yet so true 

It's not too late for you bro. Do a MiM/MiF in a UK or European target and all the doors are still open for you.

Godspeed.

Easy.  Imagine a theater full of the most successful business people whose careers you'd like to have.  Elon Musk, Jamie Dimon, whoever . . doesn't have to be someone famous, just someone you want to be.

Now ask yourself: if you got up on stage and told that audience that missing out on IB at 21 is a life-altering failure, how hard would they laugh?  

If your lifelong goal was to be a MF PE associate in your mid-20s, then yes you're fucked.

But I'm assuming your lifelong goal is something much bigger and better than that, in which case your failure to land the preferred role out of college is the most minor of setbacks.

Based on this site, people make to IB and still feel like shit. You’re not missing out…

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You do what you can until one of your fancy Cambridge friends hires you and that’s that. Suck it up buttercup 

Work on lateraling, start off in management consulting or something else, do an MBA, honestly you need to stop whining like a little bitch and get over yourself and I mean this in the kindest way possible. Why? Because you decide when it’s over. You’re a smart kid, and part of this game is facing adversity and overcoming it. If you truly want to do IB start talking to people, network, improve where you’re going wrong in these interviews and you’ll be fine. I’m telling you, it’s a proven process to IB. You just need to do well on your next process.

Read the story of Arber Xhekaj. The mother fucker was playing over playing hockey in the juniors till age 21 after he wasn’t drafted to the NHL, passed over by many teams. He was working at costco to pay himself to play hockey. Fucking inspiring. Do the same, lick your wounds and keep going.

You and I have similar backgrounds. I also struggled with my A-levels and attended a non-target school, but I managed to land a role in IBD. There is one key reason you haven't succeeded yet: your mindset and attitude. By your own admission, "I flopped my A-Levels and went to a complete non-target... I pretty much knew my career prospects were over immediately." This mindset is exactly why you didn't get in. You limited yourself by thinking that being at a non-target school meant you wouldn't get into IBD. With that mindset, you obviously won't achieve success in life let alone IB.

Your career is likely to span over 40 years. Your A-levels are just a small aspect of it. If you let this minor obstacle inhibit you, it will affect every part of your career. You will face hundreds of more significant challenges throughout your life; if you can't get past this one, then you are truly in trouble.

When I got into my non-target, I thought, "Well, these are the cards I have, I must play them to the best of my ability, even though they aren't great." I then brainstormed strategies to break in to IB. To put it into perspective, my uni was so crap that sometimes banks websities didn't even have it under the list of unis. I would have to pick other and manually type it in. So I started with any internship in finance (an accounting internship) to get my foot in the door. I sought any experience to bolster my CV, aiming for just a chance at an interview. Once I got my interview, I actively tried to do something to stand out—I created industry reports and shared them with the interviewer, which made me unique and led to my summer analyst position, which I converted to full-time.

I never let anything hinder me; I had my goal and my plans—Plan A, Plan B, Plan C. Failing and giving up were never options. Alhamdulillah, Plan A worked, but I had a backup plan to return to the accounting firm where I interned and join as a graduate, then transfer to Big 4 deal advisory and then to IB, or pursue a master's degree at a target school. I didn't get into IB because I'm a genius, special, or extraordinarily knowledgeable and gifted. I simply didn't give up, worked harder than others, and did things that others wouldn't do. You are giving up, so you will never get into IB. 

PS: I know people who started in accounting graduate schemes and ended up in IB. I even know a partner at a PE firm who never worked in IB but only Big 4.

Please take this advice:

1. Don’t dwell on your setbacks. Accept them and move forward.
2. Strategise ways to break into IB. Make plans A, B, C, and D.
3. Be proactive. Don’t get stuck in endless preparation; take action and learn from any failures.
4. Excel in your current job. Stand out as the best there.
5. Network with bankers. You mentioend you have friends/know people in elite jobs. Utilise them, as you never know they may be able to help you land your dream role. Utilise and maintain your connections; they can help you throughout your career.
6. If no one from your current firm has moved to IB (check linkedin), consider transferring to a Big 4 firm, ideally into deal advisory or perhaps even audit/tax, then transition to deal advisory and then IB.
7. Consider pursuing a master's degree. Perhaps spend a year at your current job, then assess if a master's is necessary if you’re not having luck with the Big 4.
8. Eliminate drinking and other distractions and focus on your goals.
9. Never give up.
10. Have faith. Believe that things happen for a reason and that no situation is permanent. Everyone has a way to win, but some people willingly throw it away.

Stay determined and use every resource available to you.

I struck out at the MBA level. Have classmates who did their summers in banking. Seems split across 3 different groups: people who loved it, people who could stand it / liked the money, and a few who absolutely hated it. I probably would have ended up in the last bucket.

Did my summer internship focused on business strategy with a light blend of strategic finance. I remember one of the bankers I interviewed with politely told me that he thinks I would be a better fit jumping into industry rather than being a coverage banker. I knew the industry really well but struggled with basic technical questions. One of his coworkers is an alum at my school and I remember during one of our coffee chats, I was more curious about the post-deal activities of his clients than the actual deals he worked on.

Also for personal reasons / famly committment - not so much preference, I cannot pull 80-100 hours week if it requires me to be in office. Wouldn't mind pulling those hours for the right role but would need the flexibility to work wherever I want.

You won't amount to shit! You sad excuse for a human! Get the fuck off my field, sonny! 

All I see is a lot of coping💀

Just look at the bright side . Ouch so bright

What are you thoughts on Einstein? Pretty successful guy, right?

He failed his entrance exams for college.

He failed a physics class in college too. The guy who literally changed physics, failed at physics.

Einstein graduated as the second lowest performing student in his class.

It took Einstein 9 YEARS after graduating from hid PhD program to get a university job. That’s an insanely long time to go from graduation to such a gig. And he pretty much only got that job because a friend of his.



Not everyone has a linear path. Most people don’t. Even some of the most successful people in the history of the world had to finesse their way to where they are

If you still want to get into banking, 2 things you could do: 1. lateral in... a bit of a crap shoot, or 2. go to business school ASAP and be laser focused on the banking recruiting process. 

Either way, the chances of anyone entering a junior banking role making it all the way to MD are pretty slim so, in the long-run, a lot of this doesn't matter. 

Good luck!

Look for fulfillment outside your career. Go to therapy.

I’ll chime in with another non traditional story because I remember doom scrolling this site in a very similar situation looking for posts like this as a form of relief. Hope I can provide some insight

I kicked off my official IB recruiting process for junior summer in fall of 2020 (first semester sophomore year). I had guidance from a friend in the industry and colleagues in my investment clubs on getting started and took it from there. I came from a non target, but has a large alumni base which I took advantage of. I racked up 10,20,50,100 calls in a matter of months to get a junior summer internship in IB. Interviews soon followed from firms that don’t recruit from my school, but I was getting beat out. After 1 year since I started recruiting, I ended up securing an offer for junior summer from a MM PE analyst program. I saw this is as a great opportunity to differentiate myself and possibly start my career in PE. I ended up not getting a return offer and it was time for FT recruiting. Using the same principles from the past with a little more credibility on my resume, first semester senior year after the internship I hit the ground running. I quickly got IB and PE interviews that fall, but none of them worked out. Multiple super days, but no offers. Second semester senior year came around and the same result, interviews every month regardless of the “FT timeline” but no conversion. I graduated in May 2023 unemployed and it was a gut wrenching feeling because I knew I was putting in maximum effort. Family and friends were confused on how the “ambitious one” was unemployed. The summer after graduating I was still racking up interviews even from 2 EBs just from effort, but they still fizzled out. I picked up a temp corp dev job from a family friend the fall following graduation as a resume fodder and kept at it. 2023 ends and still no IB or front office offers yet. January 2024 comes around and I bring the hustle to the next level, practicing interviewing, spinning my background, mastering my story, and the interviews continue. January & February 2024 I get rejected from 6 different IB processes and it was really the tipping point. I started applying to MSF programs as a rebrand because despite all of the troubles I had, I knew I was getting into this industry one way or another. March 2024 comes around and I have one last process left for an M&A IB analyst role in my city of preference as well that I’ve been in contact with for over 4 months. I get a final round interview, I kill it, I got the offer. I just started recently and despite the extremely challenging time I had mentally, emotionally, and financially because of this, I learned a lot about myself. If you want it bad enough you will get it, you will pivot and you will succeed. There’s a level of luck involved, but that luck cannot be realized without giving it your all. It took me 48 interviews to get one yes, but one yes is all that you need. 
 

Don’t let anyone tell you that it’s over. It’s a numbers game whether it’s 5 interviews, 50 interviews, or over 100, all you need is one yes. If you are certain this is what you want, you will find a way.

It sucks but you might end up somewhere better than you think. Everything can be a blessing in disguise as lame as that sounds.

Personally, I had a really bad health problem when I was ~17/18 and as a result my grades bombed out and I couldn't go to the right university or do well in school once I was there.

Because that happened, and my health condition meant I couldn't do physical work, I ended up creating a few internet businesses that did quite well and made more than I could have if I did something "normal". 

Also, sometimes you're just not great at something naturally, and instead of trying to force it, find something you love and are naturally talented at. You'll enjoy it more and make more money over the long run.

UK banker here - plenty of people get in to IB after doing audit/accounting post-uni, getting an ACA, maybe being in TAS/the corporate finance part of whichever accounting firm you're at. Point is, it's only over if you let it be over. An alternative is to do a MFin once you graduate at LBS/another top uni - basically just giving yourself another bite of the cherry but with a better brand name behind you.

Ignore the stuff about networking your ass off from some other posters - it's not the same as the US here, that won't get you anywhere near as far.