why the flying fuck are any of us showing up to the office
can somebody explain to me why the fuck i’m in the office right now when the group heads md vp associate are all OOO. They said RTO was better for all of us but here we are following up with all our MDs for final sign off while our MDs are realizing they got too fat for their Nantucket Reds and need to start getting orthopedic inserts in their Sperrys. We can’t even expense wfh meals anymore you are literally costing the firm money by having us come in for absolutely no goddamn reason. The first years haven’t hit the desk the interns are back at school…why am i here although if I asked myself that question three years ago when I was recruiting I could have been doing ayahuasca in the Bay after my four hour workday…
Because they (the powers that be) need to be able to justify their bank’s real estate footprint.
Or those Zoom Rooms they paid for
Because boomers and gen X hate nothing more than to see young, successful people having it better than they did. Plus, they simply can’t comprehend that the younger generations don’t build their livelihoods and identities around being an employee and living to work like they do.
Cant wait until these people finally retire and F off from the workplace forever.
Sure but then they proceed to have it better than the people that came before them…except when every person on the deal team passes the buck to analysts and then goes surprised pikachu face when shit hits the fan
Then go away and let me take your place as I build my identity around being an employee reeeeeeeee
Woah woah woah...don't lump all of us X-ers in with that group. Most of us don't care where people work so long as the tasks are getting done.
ok
lolol
Because WFH reminded seniors how much they value their daily time away from the wife & kids. Or at least the wife.
Some of us love routine and social interaction
then hang out with your friends, loser. stop trying to use your coworkers as surrogates for people who like spending time with you.
also that excuse doesnt really jive for the MDs who force RTO while staying home
newsflash, the two aren't mutually exclusive. you can spend time with friends AND colleagues.
Clients be saying to MD's that if you don't bring employees to the office so they waste their money in our stores, we not giving you any deals...
What about tech IB though? WFH was boom for most tech companies
If clients in other groups demand it, doesn’t even matter :/
You really don't need to be there if all your seniors aren't there.
Find it pretty hard to believe that there's a bank where it's already the end of August and first years haven't started. This feels like unnecessary anger over a fictionalized scenario.
Multiple banks have not hit the desk yet
We’re all taking our series exams. We’ll hit the desk once this, and training, is complete.
I find it kind of crazy that there are many associates and above that prefer to be at the office for the sake of “efficiency”. Makes me wonder if they really just hate their partner or family.
At the analyst level (particularly the early months) you aren't doing any thinking, you're just doing what you're told (which are usually menial tasks). These are easy to check in, do it quick on your comp, and mentally check out.
Associates + are starting to run the process, need to communicate, and like to be on when they're on and off while they're off, not blending home and work. I too like to go into work when I know I need to grind, it can almost feel like a never-ending process when I'm doing it from home.
Many people are not efficient or good at working from home. You need to bake it into your culture from the start or be willing to terminate a lot of people that aren't good at it. It’s also a skill to manage people remotely
You are working for an old company that is not either of above.
How do you suggest to incorporate wfh into culture?
This is exactly right.
The short answer is that the global fee pool is down 30% YoY
Know what changed WFH policies, will bring back leniency, etc? A huge revenue year
I think there is value in being in person to collaborate, but if your entire deal team is OOO or remote and they STILL mandate you come in, they are actually bad people who have no regard for giving you any autonomy over your own life.
I am in office 3-4 days a week, but whenever my director is out, I get the option to be remote. He goes out of his way to tell me when thats the case too, and it makes me appreciate him more and work harder, remote or in person.
My guess is that in IB because you work for so many different people, no one feels the need to really do you a solid. Whereas I am one of only a few people who works day in and day out for my director, so he also has an incentive to keep me happy.
Sorry to hear that OP. I worked for a job where I was forced in office all the time for no reason and I took the next offer I could find, plain and simple. I hope youre at a reputable IB that allows you to transition out of that shit culture environment asap
I love being in the office
I just don’t bother teaching my new analysts / associates more novel analyses or industry concepts if they aren’t in person. After a couple years find it frustrating / less efficient over the phone or whatever, so will just do direct or send markup that an 8th grader could process. Maybe that’s a chiller / better lifestyle for them but can’t imagine as good for development LT as sitting next to more experienced folks and learning
That sounds like a you problem. I’d go as far as saying it’s a sign of bad management if you’re not able to adapt your style to the situation and environment in order to get the best out of your team.
Put another way, a good manager is able to evolve and utilise new tools, technologies and ways of working to improve both output and input (in the case, input being the things you teach your team). If you can’t get your team learning properly remotely, that’s on you, and you need to adapt. I have taught plenty of analysts and associates the methodologies and thinking behind detailed industry analyses completely from behind a screen. It can be done, and there are certainly benefits to doing it that way.
fair shout. Probably some truth to that and I’ll think more on it.
But it does get exhausting - and I know I and plenty of other mid level people prioritize mentorship and hands-on training for the juniors we see and work next to day after day. Better organic relationship and I’m more invested in their development as a result. So it’s just one angle / viewpoint in response to the thread question
Agree that you can generally teach most things virtually, but to say you can get as detailed and convey info as efficiently as compared to being in person, I don’t agree with that. Plus, why would anyone 2nd year or above want to go out of their way to help you in a manner that’s slightly more annoying and less effective. We want to help and get y’all moving but we’re not gonna bend over back lmao.
This is the way
Because I like being around people and work better with my team around me. Admittedly I’m a terrible remote worker. I also much prefer meeting clients in person.
Tbh I’m surprised at some of these responses. I mean to each their own, but if you don’t like being in the office like 3.5 days a weeks, I read that as your firm having a terrible junior/bullpen culture and that you just don’t wanna see these people at all. And that’s totally valid, just a different argument really.
To be fair, my firm has decent (by banking standards) wfh on holiday policies and PTO is mostly respected in my group. People also mostly transition home in the 6-8 window unless they’re grinding. I guess I would say it’s just not toxic, at least on the surface, like obviously politics is a thing.
But if the genesis of these arguments is just pure not wanting to be in the office, I just think like damn y’all don’t wanna get out of your apartment at all? Also, the improved productivity from home study thing was totally debunked. Maybe you feel opposite, but I do feel more productive being in the office generally speaking. It can get a little exhausting by the fifth day, but that’s why wfh on Friday is goated. I also think to become more efficient at home, you gotta have those working relationships exist that are forged in the office. Like wfh as a first year kinda sucked given the lack of support imo. But now as a 2nd year, wfh is terrific.
Lot of rambling here but I am a bit surprised at the consensus of this thread.
this is the consensus bc new WSO is full of gen Z brats who shouldnt have gone into finance at all...
As an observer from outside the US, it is clear to me the problem with investment banking/high finance in the US is that (i) it pays too well, and (ii) it has too many junior positions open, so it is an easy route for graduates...
Like seriously, you're getting paid 200k a year at 22 to learn stuff about business all day, and you don't even want to be in an office for that?
this is pathetic
Good god why the fuck do so many people in IB not understand that just because you are more product in the office, that doesn’t mean all of us are more productive in the office.
Also literally where have you see it “debunked” that WFH is less productive because a 30 second google search shows the opposite
Okay I did a long and arduous 45 second google search and found the below in which I was referring:
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-08-04/fully-remote-work-le…
https://www.economist.com/finance-and-economics/2023/06/28/the-working-…
Pretty much the consensus has shifted and the original groundbreaking wfh productivity study was a little flawed.
To quote bbg, “Surprisingly, remote workers who preferred to work from home were even less productive than those who would rather have been in the office.” Maybe you’re not as productive as you think…
And just like that DSOL hammering in 5 days a week lol guy sucks
- https://nypost.com/2023/08/22/goldman-sachs-cancels-summer-fridays-want…
I don't understand all this whining and complaining. Like did you not know what you signed up for? Banking is not tech, big banks are not startups.
I swear half of you have no idea what you're getting into and cry like babies when reality bites.
Bruh if all your coworkers aren't there just let your Asso know you'll be taking the rest of the day WFH after lunch b/c no one is even there.
MDs often like to force their Analysts to stay back at the office so when the Group Head walks by he says shit like "Oh wow, the __ coverage team is relentless!" and it reflects good on the MD who looks like he's running a tight ship.
Perfect blend is 2-3 days in the office. Makes you appreciate and take full advantage of wfh days, gets you together with coworkers without you getting sick and tired of them, gets you out and about interacting with other professionals during your 16 hours a day of working.
Perfect blend is letting people go into the office as much as they want. Or at least go the carrot method vs stick (aka in office mandates) if you really want people in-person
Because your job is not the same as theirs. Do you whine when executive level personnel fly on the corporate jet while you’re flying at the back of a commercial flight next to a toilet?
Overall, what’s required to be successful as an analyst/associate is different than what’s required of a D/MD. How success is judged, what the expectations of the job are, what the responsibilities are, so forth
The senior bankers should spend some time in the office but their productivity one way or the other isn’t as reliant on it as it is for the junior ranks. If you really want to get down to it, senior bankers shouldn’t be in the office as much since they should be with their clients.
But life isn’t fair. Focus on what you need to do to be successful, rather than what others who are several levels above you are doing.
Bc that’s the only way I get free chipotle ever since they took away WFH dinner reimbursement
Facts. I like raiding the snacks in the kitchen and getting my free dinner
What kinds of snacks do you guys get? And which bank lmao
In reality the best answer is likely 2/3 days in person so you can schedule meetings, meet with clients, etc while still having the benefits of WFH on the other days. I say this as someone who vastly prefers WFH because the “learning and mentorship” piece is all fluff IMO as when I was in office as an analyst, nobody would show me more concepts / teach me things just because I sat near them (everyone still was glued to their computers and grinding since everyone is busy). It just made deliverables more efficient since if you had a question or wanted to run through things with your boss, he was right there.
There’s no one size fits all (I work way better at home than in office) so at least hybrid schedule benefits everyone.
I’m in my early twenties and I started after Covid and chose to be in the office every day. My first team wasn’t in the office very often I seen my colleagues once or twice a week and boss once a week and her boss twice a month.
I have gained a reputation for being in the office every day rain or shine and because of that I had become very good friends with a gentleman who also ventured into the office every day. I discussed with him my dislike of not seeing my team or boss compared to other teams who where in the office more often.
I’ve recently been given the opportunity to change teams realising that the man I had been talking to each day was a senior manager and offered me a chance to work with him and his team that would be in the office every day.
I now work in this team and we are all liked minded individuals of a variety of age from early twenties to mid/late thirties and early forties who want to be in the office. This new team has provide lots of opportunities, we all speak regularly with other senior staff. I’m still early in my career but I’m in a much better position than people I started with who chose to WFH and I truly believe it is because I choose to work from the office.
There’s another point I want to make.
If you work from home you destroy the work/life balance, living and working in the same place maybe rooms apart isn’t good for you.
Plot twist - the man British Banker met worked on the grounds crew
Idk man. Most things can be done at home. In person meetings here and there make sense but being in office just for the sake of being in office is pretty fuckin dumb
I think this is a very nuanced issue and it's not a black-and-white "I love coming in every day" vs "why the fuck are we not wfh every day."
Showing up for the dinner
My group has in office policy. But ppl still zoom each other even if they r on the same floor…..what’s the point?
Going into the office can give you some nice memories, fun moments that you don’t get from sitting at home with the same ppl every day
Post bonus season, half the floor is WFH for 2 weeks
Lmao where is this
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